Rex Hohlbein 0:00

Before we get started, I want to bring in my good friend Tomas Vernadsky. Who is the other half of eunomia. Now to share a few thoughts with us, hey, Tomas.

Unknown Speaker 0:09

Hey, Rex, so we made it to season two.

Rex Hohlbein 0:11

Yeah. 10th episode now I'm super excited about the journey we're on.

Speaker 1 0:17

Me too. So much has already happened in our first season.

Rex Hohlbein 0:20

Is there anything you want to share with our listeners Tomas as we launch into Season Two?

Speaker 1 0:25

Yes, absolutely. We have been getting lots of new listeners recently, and the show is growing. Not sure if our listeners know this, but each episode comes with a episode page on our website at you know me now.com Where they can see photos and sometimes videos that relate to the episodes we release, we would encourage everyone to visit. We also want to say thank you to the listeners who have rated and reviewed the show on Apple podcasts. It really does help get the show recommended to new listeners. If you're enjoying the show, please share it with your family and friends who might also like what we are trying to say. Lastly, we want to send a big thank you to Sally, Jason, Kathleen, APU and faith who have supported the show on Patreon. Thank you, it really helps offset the production costs.

Rex Hohlbein 1:22

Okay, anything else to us?

Unknown Speaker 1:24

No. Let's dive right into Season Two.

Rex Hohlbein 1:28

This podcast contains potentially sensitive topics including strong language drug use and other conditions of human suffering. Listener Discretion is Advised

Dizzy 1:42

was had excellent hair was had excellent Mayor even when it was salt and pepper. Excellent hair. That's for sure. What's what's a good looking guy? Western you everybody. Really? I think so. Yeah. Everybody knew Wes.

Brenda 1:58

I think the first thing I noticed about Wes, he just catches a person's eye. He's extremely handsome. He catches everybody's eye because he stands out above the rest. But what kept me just continually seeing him and enjoying him and being his friend was that he is a beautiful person inside. When I saw him in Fremont and I was heading to kind of a place where I lived where I was having some troubles and he he said Brenda here I've got to show you this, you know, and he got me to slow down. And he took me into the church there. And he took me up the stairway and then he said we can just sit here and he just let me just relax and not have to talk not have to say anything to him. I mean, he was just a friend a good friend. He kind of knew when people needed their their moments, especially being out on the street. It's it's it's constant.

Dizzy 2:54

Wes was full of love, that's for sure. I don't know if I ever saw West really angry. She's been disappointed before and was always trying want to get something going with me musically. But he was really an experienced and so I always, you know kind of blew him off which I wish I hadn't done now. But you have some things that happen when people pass. He was she were nicer. And I wish I was nicer. Well, she deserved it. I I tolerated it more than I engaged him, you know, and I shouldn't have been that way with him.

Rex Hohlbein 3:27

I'm Rex Holbein and welcome to you know me now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community. For the past 13 years, I have met and spent a great deal of time, with 1000s of folks living homeless. Through those conversations and friendships. I learned how destructive and baseless the dehumanizing effects of the negative stereotype are against ordinary people, people who are really just like you and me. In these episodes, I want to remind all of our listeners that the folks who share here do so with a great deal of vulnerability and courage. They share a common hope that by giving all of us a window into their world, they're opening an increased level of awareness, understanding and connection within our own community. There were 310 Homeless deaths in 2022 in the Seattle area, a 65% increase over the previous year. Fentanyl related overdoses accounted for more than half of those deaths. 35 people died from natural causes. 10 died from hypothermia or exposure and seven died from suicide. The average age of death was 48. Those are all tragically horrible numbers. It's hard to get your head around them to even know how to feel. When talking about homelessness, it is easy to get lost in the numbers, in part, because the numbers are staggering. But also the numbers are what get reported on, we hear more about the numbers than the actual people the numbers are about. Now, most of us have not been homeless, and have also not spent a great deal of time with someone that has experienced homelessness, meaning, we do not have first hand knowledge about homelessness. Therefore, we rely on secondhand knowledge. And for the most part, second hand knowledge on homelessness is the negative stereotype. Furthermore, without first hand knowledge, we have nothing to push back on or challenge the negative stereotype with. For this reason we readily adopted and over time, believe the views are our own, forgetting that they were given to us. In this episode, we want to share about one person who lived chronically homeless in Seattle, just one of the 310 that passed away in 2022. His name is Wes Wesley, Charles Green, he was just 46 years old when he died. The cause of death was listed as systemic hypothermia with acute combination of drug intoxication, including fentanyl, and methamphetamine. The night West died, the temperatures were in the 20s. And he was found without enough warm clothing, in that Wes is no longer here to share about himself, you'll be getting to know him through his friendships, defined by the feelings of those that were in his life and did get to know him.

Brenda 6:51

He talked a lot about his parents. I have for years wanted to meet these two people, he talks about him so loving his mother and his father and about how extremely intelligent they are. But I I kind of gathered that because Wes, it's like he has a great knowledge of physics. I don't know if it's schooling or just what it is. He studied on his own. I really don't know his history of that. But, you know, emotions he's got he's like the yin and yang of of that, too. Usually when somebody's analytically minded, they're, they're not so emotionally in tune. And he's, he was just like a whole package, bouncing it. All he did was and he's just this amazing person that happened to be homeless.

Rex Hohlbein 7:37

This is Brenda, who you heard at the top of the show, she has been in and out of homelessness herself. For years, Brenda and West were good friends, there was a great deal of respect and care given in their friendship as each navigated their own struggles.

Brenda 7:53

I never saw him like hanging out. He was kind of a loner. And but yeah, he knew everybody. And I'm finding that out now as well, because people that are in a group way over there, you know, he knows it's a eclectic group of people that are, you would never think knew each other because he just, he presents himself to people. And he's unforgettable,

Rex Hohlbein 8:17

partly, you know, my experiences. Not only was he attractive, he also went out of his way to dress sharp,

Brenda 8:24

I loved it, because it was kind of this, it's an office with a punk rock. You know, he'd have like, the perfect socks and shoes, and then some ripped up jeans, but perfectly ripped up. And then you know, like a collared shirt, but it's wrinkled, you know, or something, you know, like, he meant it to be that way. You know,

Rex Hohlbein 8:40

I mean, and usually a very nice jacket, always a nice, like a sports jacket, or a long, a long knee length coat, or something with big buttons or whatever.

Brenda 8:49

He was a shoe guy and a coat guy. And that's the best thing to be in Seattle, you know, layers, and he just, yeah, God, he just so good. Yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 8:55

And you. And then with all that was this intellectual conversation that he seemed to always want to engage people with? It was

Brenda 9:04

amazing, because he's one of three people I can think of that can really get deep. And his vocabulary was, I just admired it so much. I mean, he would pull words and I'd be like, what does that mean? You know, and I thought mine was okay. But he can, you know, a lot of people are turned off by, you know, on the streets, they're just like, well, I don't understand that or anything. I was so intrigued by his vocabulary that his parents must I'm sure they had a huge part of that. And he was so eloquent.

Rex Hohlbein 9:34

eloquence is a really good word for Wes. I think I don't know actually quite how he did it, you know, with the roughness of homelessness and the uncertainty constantly every day of it, he somehow was able to keep that yeah fairly to get

Brenda 9:46

and look good and you know, and be happy a lot of people you know, you could see their good days and their bad days you know, they everything shows like I said, you know, you never really have any privacy to the outside, you know, world but he did I don't care which spot I saw him in. But there he was doing, they're all dressed up and ready to go, you know, and just do it as saying, you know, and he was such a necessary part of my life. And he is going to be so missed.

Mindy 10:13

Prior to meeting Wes, I had seen Wes around my neighborhood and Magnolia for several years. And he was, you know, he always popped up at different little convenience stores. Like he'd be sweeping in a parking lot somewhere. And I'd be like, What is going on with this guy? Like, you know, he's kind of dressed nicely, but he's screaming in the parking lot. I don't know. And so I just always, you know, I always wondered about him. That

Rex Hohlbein 10:40

was Mindy sharing about Wes. She lives in the Magnolia neighborhood in Seattle. Mindy befriended Wes, about six months before his death, while his passing is still very emotional for her. She agreed to share about him and their friendship. One

Mindy 10:56

day, in August, I was out walking my dog in the neighborhood, and I heard this kind of loud noise from the bushes. So I decided to cross the street and I went over and I said, Are you Are you okay? And then the voice says, Yeah, I'm fine. And I said, Are you sure? Because it doesn't really sound like you're okay. And then up pops this head of this, you know, like, gorgeous man with these beautiful eyes. And in she said, he says, oh, yeah, I'm fine. I'm Wesley. And I said, Hi, I'm Mindy. And I said, Okay, well, just want to make sure you're okay. And, and so then, you know, in, in wisely style says, Well, do you have a couple dollars? You could you could loan me, you know, it said, Well, I don't have it with me right now, because I'm walking my dog. But I, you know, he's like, Well, why don't you meet me down at the, you know, convenience store down there and like, 10 minutes and all. And I don't know what it was, you know, I there's just something about him. Just this like, magical aura, I don't know. And I said, Okay, I'll meet you there. And then I met him there. And I gave him the money. And I saw him a few more times after that. And then finally I said, you know, Wes, what do you need? How can I help? How can I support you? And he said, You know, I could really use a $40 track phone. Do you think you could get me that? And I said, Yeah, could But one condition. And he said, Okay, and I said you need to, you know, connect with people reconnect to your family or reach out, I want to make sure that you're you know, connecting with people. Okay. Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. So got on the phone and and I kept asking him every time I'd see him, did you connect with your family who'd you connect with? And then when he hadn't, and then one of the things he said, Well, why don't why don't you call my aunt Patty, call my aunt patty. And let's talk to me up pouty and so it's okay. I'll call her you know, and we called can learn a little bit more about Wes.

Martin 13:04

You know, when I when I met Wes, the first time there was there was a couple of things that just immediately struck me differently that I felt drawn. There were one his eyes. Yeah, there was something about those eyes. Secondly, amazingly well spoken person

Rex Hohlbein 13:21

that was Martin speaking, like Mindy, he lives in the Magnolia neighborhood. However, they did not know each other until later when West connected them. Martin's experience of first meeting Wes was when he was outside in his front yard gardening. A simple question from Wes, who had walked up his driveway sparked their beautiful friendship. I was

Martin 13:43

doing yard work. And he asked me if he could help me do some work for some money. Because he asked in such a manner of like, someone well spoken, and just had this sincerity about because I knew he was actually wanting to work as opposed to like, I will work for food, but I just want more food. And, and I think he was surprised because I, I have a back injury. So I have to watch what I what kind of things I do. And so sometimes yard work can really be a little uncomfortable. So I was like, great, you know, let's, let's get you're busy. And he he said I'm Can I get a little money up front? And I kind of knew what that was Forex because I you know, being an alcoholic than myself. And he says I just want to go to the store and I thought, dude, I get it. 100% Because sitting there just yeah, go go get what you need, whatever makes you feel good. And get you go and then let's do that. So, of course he was back in a few minutes and just killed it. I mean, the precision of the work that he did you know he trimmed and then swept and I mean I was just thinking to do Do I'm done. But he was just here for a while, you

Rex Hohlbein 15:03

know, I wanted to just point out or pause for a second on that, that little moment where, you know, you decided, yes, go ahead, go to the store, right? Because that's a big moment, because I would guess, take 10 people, eight would have said no, you know, would have said, Hey, man, I'm not going to do that. You want to do the work? Do the work, I'll pay you for the work. Right? And then you can go to the store. And I mean, I think that's, that's beautiful. And also, you can see how it was a stepping stone to not only successful working for you, but to your friendship. Yeah, a certain level of trust. And, and I think what I heard you say, too, is knowledge from your own kind of your own history. You understood that moment?

Martin 15:52

Yeah, I knew that. You know, for myself, I, there's a lot of things I did when I was consuming alcohol it. And it was a knee braided that I probably shouldn't have been doing. But to me, I felt like I was I was at my best if I just, you know, got just enough in my system, I was in that perfect zone. And so I completely understood where he's, he needs to be comfortable. And he needs to be in that, that space. And, and so I'm like, dude, have at it. So, let's, let's go, you know, I'm not gonna get upset because you're gonna drink and then do work. For me. I'm just not that kind of thing. I just, I just completely empathize with the discomfort that he could feel physically, if he's not consuming when he needs to consume.

Rex Hohlbein 16:39

Mindy, and Martin's ability to create a meaningful relationship with Wes, is an example of what a healthy community could look like. When thinking of homelessness, perhaps it's best, if we no longer think of it as a homelessness crisis, but rather a community crisis. When we say homelessness crisis, we talk about those people over there, asking them how they can change to resolve the issue of homelessness. When we talk about a community crisis, we have to include ourselves, because we're all part of the community. We also have to ask ourselves, the same questions. How can we change to help resolve the issue of homelessness? I'm curious to know how Mindy and Martin were able to make this connection with Wes. Was it their first experience doing this? What was the secret ingredient? Was this the first time? Or had you done this before with regards to reaching out to somebody on the street? Like what what's your track record with the homeless before Wes? You

Mindy 17:42

know, this is this is really the first time I ever really, really invested in someone that was unhoused. I mean, I My office is downtown on Third Avenue between pike and pine. So you can imagine that I've been exposed to a lot of call that the blade Yes. And you know, I've there have been people that I've met in you know, like a mother with kids. I'll give some money try to maybe help find like call somewhere for them. But it just that was about it. Like there was never anything this extensive and just like a really a really strong bond connecting with someone like Wes,

Martin 18:29

we had this one gentleman who came up our driveway one day, he spoke to my wife first. And he wanted he wanted to know if she had like, a pottery pot, because we weren't sure what he wanted. But my wife had all this stuff leftover because she's quite the gardener and she has an excess of them. And the fact that she brought that to him and said here, and it was exactly what he asked for it just like, you know, lit him up. And so he would come by from time to time to kind of he would bring us gifts, you know, things that he found, but you know, he was really struggling with addiction to the point that you there was just he just eventually disappeared because I just think he his body gave out but assumed by it. Yeah. So you got a little little bit of a occasionally where his mind was starting to go due to heavy use and, and and and he'd be a little more difficult to to interact with. But it was nice, you know, his name was Stefan. And so

Rex Hohlbein 19:34

I literally brought you stuff. Yeah, we either

Martin 19:36

he'd knock in and give it to us or we'd come out and it'd be on the front porch. And, and like with Wes, Stefan was just kind of like a fixture in Magnolia. So it was his neighborhood. So you saw him a lot. And you just it wasn't just some guy passing through Oh sky that I lived across down to under the rail. Overpass right there. It was. It was an Interesting experience, we didn't know quite how to deal with someone who is that deep into addiction that has obviously some mental illness, and obviously, has been on the street for a long time because I think you, your mind starts to think differently.

Rex Hohlbein 20:17

new friendships are always a journey, ones between the house and unhoused can be challenging to say the least. At times, they're unpredictable and frustrating for both sides. However, there also exists this beautiful opportunity for something genuine and authentic. By crossing the divide, new experiences can be found ones that bring real meaning to our lives. What you put in, is what you get out comes to mind, Mindy, and Martin as housed individuals, and Wes as unhoused, all reached out and trust and found something genuine.

Mindy 20:56

After I got him the phone and I talked to his aunt, and then subsequently his uncle Stephen. Patty told Stephen about me and she said, can I have Steve and call you? And I said yes, please. And I talked to Steven.

Rex Hohlbein 21:11

And again, they're back in Chicago. So Patty's in

Mindy 21:15

Minnesota and Stevens in New York, and then Wess stepfather is in Chicago. And I ended up talking to a stepfather, Tom as well. And I think that after really connecting with his family and learning more about Wes and his story, growing up, and then also just spending time with Wes and talking to him, and really, you know, he, he really told me a lot about his life and growing up and what he had gone through, and he really, to me, was interested in trying to change his life and get to a better life in terms of housing and mental health and treatment for addiction. And I just told him, I said, you know, Wes, I, I want to help you, and I want to be a support for you. And I want to be your friend. And as long as you know, we can kind of take this journey together. And you're, you're on board too. And we keep taking these positive steps together, then, you know, I'm, I'm here for you. And and that's where it started. And we really, the first step we took together was we got his ID, he didn't have ID. It's funny

Martin 22:34

and Wescott on this. And at first, I was uncomfortable with it. But he would call me his sponsor, because he get going on stuff. And then I give him ideas, you know, and let's get organized. And because he'd have these little moments where he's like, I got a new idea for a business. And so and then I'd help him and then he's like, you're my mentor. You're like my sponsor. And so I said, Well, sponsor kind of means something else. But I'll go with roll with it. Yeah, roll with it. One thing I'll say, you know, being in recovery, we're supposed to, like, reach out for the suffering alcoholic and all that. But I, I immediately realized, with my own experience, if there were certain points in my, in my drinking history, where if you were to approach me and say, You really need to get sober. I'm not like, huh, that sounds like a good idea or something, mine would be to push back and push back with theory, meaning I would, I would drink more, I'm going to show you. So I offered to west, I said, if you ever want to talk or you want to do this, reach out to me, but I'm not going to push this on you, you push an agenda on someone. And we we as a we are all about acceptance, acceptance. And, and I think sometimes we have to accept the idea that the person's going to come to us eventually, we just need to give them their own time. You he just wasn't at that place. Because you think well, he's living on the street because his life has become unmanageable. What took me a while to, to understand. And finally at one point, he had a little conversation, we were having coffee one day in a shop, and he kind of explained his whole wanting to be on the streets, you know, his his view of the world. And with that talk of this is, this is the way I see it, as opposed to do this, oh, I choose to do this. And I want this he just kind of expanded my mind all of a sudden I was like, Oh, now I totally get it. You know, he was just a free spirit and he's comfortable and happy with what the exchange is what he has to give up and some of the discomfort he had to live with cold and hot and sleeping on concrete and this because all the benefits all the things he wants supersede that and so

Rex Hohlbein 24:58

I wonder if there's a there was a a condition where he would have been able to hold on to all his wants and still be inside. And the reason I asked that is, you know, I've met truly at this point 1000s of people that are homeless, and nobody ever, like, chooses or wants homelessness, because homelessness equals suffering. But I wonder, but but things get trumped, like you just said, like, well, I have authority issues, or I have anxiety or you know, and I, it's more important for me to take care of these things, then to actually be inside where I can't actually address those things. And I wonder if les was able to visualize a world where he could be inside and still have those needs of his met. And wonder if that was if there was a if there was if the Venn dry diagram ever overlapped where some place existed? Or if it just wasn't conceivable in his mind. Don't know if you've had if you had any conversations like that with him? No,

Martin 26:00

but I somehow felt like being outside he, he felt like it was his way of being in control. And my wife and I, and she's a big advocate for the West, we would have these discussions at times, from time to time where she says, Well, you think if we had him come in, and he could sleep down in the, in the room and downstairs and I said, Well, I'm going to tell you this step West has has created a routine now. So he gets up at three in the morning, because that's when his main mind wakes up. That's when all the he's journaling. And he's texting you is removing, yeah, he's texting you or emailing you at two in the morning or three. And so I know he's up in the morning. I'm not sure you want to have someone walking around our house at three in the morning, because it's not like he had bad boundaries. He just wouldn't always think well, maybe I shouldn't go upstairs where they are while they're sleeping. You know. So. And I may sound a little mean, but I just knew that there was a practicality to that. Yeah, we were trying to figure out how we can plug him into a more comfortable situation. One

Rex Hohlbein 27:09

of the difficulties getting close to someone outside is that you begin to care for them. Caring changes everything. It's hard to not go into the fixit mode. And when at night, when you put your head on your pillow, and the rain is pouring down, it's hard to not have your heart hurt. I asked Mindy about this, how she navigated the difference between her living condition, and Wess. He

Mindy 27:37

would just text me or call me and he'd be you know, I'm at fisherman's terminal or I'm at the PCC in Fremont in the garage. So I will go get him. And he would pack his stuff into my back of my car. And we would just drive to appointments or I would take him on errands with me a lot. Because I wanted, you know, I was like, he wants to just be in the car and be warm or just talk or you know, he would even sleep in my car sometimes when I would get you know, I went to University Village one day, I'd do a bunch of things. And he slept in the car in the garage. Yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 28:12

And you met him in August, which means you were you the first month or two end of summer, but you were heading into winter. Exactly.

Mindy 28:18

Yeah. Yeah. And that was one thing that I that I always told them like, Hey, we got to we're working on housing, and we really need to, you know, focus on this because it's the weather's turning is gonna change, you know, yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 28:34

You makes you tear up, because you know, that he slept in concrete garages and places that were pretty cold.

Speaker 2 28:42

Yeah. Yeah. And I always, you know, I felt sorry, I felt I always felt so guilty when I would spend the day with him, you know, and we would, you know, or take him to the doctor, or we'd have lunch at Burger master or, you know, we were always going places to get lunch or food or dinner and go into appointments and, and we'd have a great day, and then you know, drop them off in a garage, and I would go home, and it just felt really bad.

Rex Hohlbein 29:19

Yep. I, I'll share a insight that, you know, over the years, getting to meet a lot of people that are homeless, and that is that it's really a proximity problem, right? Like if you're at a fine dining place with your with your sweetheart, and you're enjoying this incredible meal, right. And at the very same time, somebody's under a bridge somewhere, you know, in this city, a lot of bridges, a lot of people and they're suffering. You can still enjoy your meal. Because they're, they're not close by, but If you took one of those folks, maybe they had an ulcerated leg and it was bleeding, and you put them right at your foot of your table, you couldn't, you couldn't enjoy your meal because you would see this person suffering. And I think, you know, that's what you've done by reaching out to West as you've closed the gap. Right? Like you, you brought yourself close. And then and now you're emotionally part of his journey. Right? Yeah. Somehow, I think we all have to come closer. So that we can know how to act and know how to feel, you know, appropriately.

Mindy 30:37

You know, where's he, he, he, he made my life richer, and he brought a lot of joy to me. And, you know, we would have fun, we would be in the car and he would play all this different kinds of music for me, and he would change all my stations, priests do all the presets, you know, all his stations that he liked. And we would dance to like Michael Jackson, P YT. And, and he would, you know, play songs that he told me, his mother loved and they would listen to you. You know, he would ask me, Mindy, can you buy me a basketball and we're at Fred Meyer looking for shoes. And I was like, Well, what do you How are you going to carry this thing around? You know, like, it's not going to fit in your bag. Come on, come on, please. Just you know, and I said, Okay, I said, Well, I'll buy it for you. Then you show me some moves show. You're bragging about it all the time. Let's go the park show me some moves. And so we we went to the park and Ballard and he was very talented athlete. And he still had some moves. He was he was doing it. You know, like I said, I take him on errands all the time. And I was getting ready for the Seattle Animal Shelter auction that I was on the committee for so I was one day, picking up all the different auction items and stuff. And he came with me and he was super excited. And he helped me and I mean, we it was probably like four hours, we spent that day picking things up. And then we got to the Nordic Museum and Ballard and dropped him off. And then I had a backdrop picture backdrop that we needed to set up and I said, Okay, Wes, you you do it, you put it together, I don't you know, and he was so great with things like that he was so handy. And he was focused and engaged. And he just went for it. It was perfect, you know, and he was really proud. And he was really happy. And I remember that. So that day he I took him, you know, back to magnolia. And then I went to the auction with my husband, and I got this email and I was at the auction. And it was from Wes. And you know, he said, Oh, gosh, Monday, this is, you know, such a great day. Thanks for bringing me with you.

Speaker 2 32:43

And he said, You know, I have more to offer, you know, thanks so much, my friend. And I was sitting at the auction, you know, at the table with all these people that was reading this email, and it just, it just really like got to my heart, you know, because I was like this. This person is, you know, really, really, he's a person, he's a real person. And he is doing these things with me. And I know, he's trying, and it's just so hard, you know, there was just so many things that he was struggling with. I

Martin 33:23

really liked coming home to him being at the house because I always told him, you know, you can, you can, you can sleep here and if you want because you'd like to sleep in front of my truck, by the garage. And then when you pitch a tent, or we know he just brought his bedding, and some cardboard and stuff and I bought him some new bedding because I need something better. So I just told him you know, if you ever just need some place to to be, you know, just make yourself at home on the patio. So it got to a point where if I came home, and he wasn't on the patio, I felt like like I felt a little butthurt I feel like the the my girlfriend's not coming over kind of thing. You know that kind of I'm disappointed. Oh, yeah. And so I would get to that intersection and I could see over and it was always great because I'd be parked there ready for my turn to turn and I could see him either moving around or sitting up here reading and I'm like yeah, my my dudes here. I think that's one of the things when I first met him there's this sense of ease that I felt with him and a sense of extreme trust. And you know, he really was very conscientious of he had some he had very good boundaries and in knowing that, you know what, what he should ensure that you're doing and he said that's one of the reasons he didn't spend a lot of time hanging out with a lot of homeless people are in encampments because there's a lot of thieving and stuff that just went so against his nature. Yeah, he just liked to be by himself hit one time he did get out He kind of attacked by some other homeless. And I took, at that time, his little push cart that he had, which saddened me because he had all his books in there. And he had one book that turned out, it's a book I had in high school. And we we spent a lot of time reading it and talking about it. And I just was bummed that he lost that book, because it was that connection point. Yeah. I don't think they wanted his books, but they just took the whole card. And, yeah, that really, yeah, that was sad. You know,

Rex Hohlbein 35:26

one of the things that you're you're sharing, I think is, is is missed by a lot of people on the, you know, in the general public living inside, is that when we talk about the issue of homelessness, we we invariably talk about, you know, what can we do for them? Like, what, what do they need, and what can we do for them, but we don't hear too often, what they are doing for us. And you know, what you're sharing is that he enriched your life, right? Like that you Oh, yes, that you you were looking forward to his company, and in the things that you, you know, that you got to share back and forth was equally valuable to you as it was to him.

Martin 36:05

Yeah. And I've said this to my wife, who said to my friends, you know, especially now he's passed, I was just explaining, you know, my grief, of course, but I was just felt like, I felt like I had lost something because he was teaching me so much. And I was learning so much, just again, seeing the world through his eyes, and how he saw things made, it shifted how I saw things, and it made things bigger and more interesting. I'm not saying it's a character character, but he just, he was really, truly interesting. You know, if you can get him talking about his family, or some of the experiences, especially when you get into talking music, then he's got 1000 stories about this. And that is never a dull moment. That's just put that way. And what

Rex Hohlbein 36:56

would you say to people that haven't had experiences meeting people that are homeless, like based on your experience, getting to know Wes, I

Martin 37:05

wasn't like I was trying to take care of West but I think my mother's caretaking nature is in me. And when I, when I helped other people aren't prone to reach out to help people I see on the street or otherwise. And then just with West, it's just like, I have this need to, to, to care for something without any strings attached. And there's a real joy and a freedom with knowing that there's there's no exchange here. And conditional. Yeah. And I think most of all, I think with there's a there's a couple homeless people are up by the project I'm working on right now. And I, you know, I make a point when they're there, because sometimes they'll see me, and then I'll wave to them. The other day, I opened the door, because I was working on the front entry of a home and, and I, I just asked the guy Hey, how are you doing today? You know, because I'm seriously, I'm genuine, like, how are you doing? And I see you because I think that's a big part is that people are avoiding them to to the awkwardness of having to talk with someone and maybe they'll ask for money and and so we shut them off. And we pretend we don't see them. And I I think I've experienced enough feeling disenfranchised myself to whatever, either alcoholism or just my own self worth issues. But there's nothing worse than feeling like you're invisible. So I make a point when I when I'm out and about and I see them. You're there I see you if I can help yet. With within reason, and also just giving them a sincere Hello. Because everyone says how are you? But it's it's when you have to say no. How are you

Rex Hohlbein 38:51

doing? Yeah, you're actually human to human having?

Martin 38:54

Yeah, because sometimes you could get them at a point where they just needed that acknowledgement. I know that from my own experience, somebody just says this The most miniscule thing to you, but the timing is perfect. And what they said to you is just so minuscule, but it just delivers. And suddenly your day wasn't a brighter but it turns is turned you turning the corner and putting it in a totally different director directory. So I

Rex Hohlbein 39:24

totally agree with that. Yeah, it's even if you're not homeless, the power of somebody genuinely, genuinely saying hello to you, even when everything's going your way, and a stranger says, Hey, man, how's it gone? You know, like, you can feel it, like even that you're like, well, that person actually genuinely wanted to say hi to me, and you know, like, there is worth in that. Yeah, there's a lot to that. I know when I come off the freeway off ramps and I lowered the window and I say to somebody, Hey, how's it going, man? You don't Okay? been doing that for probably two over 14 years ish, not one person has ever said, Hey, can I have some money? Because the moment of actually just connecting Trump's that moment of saying, hey, I need some money, or I need something else like it, it is it's very valuable currency. Connection is, I want to jump in to share briefly about my own friendship with Wes. I first met him back in 2012, when my architecture office was in the Fremont neighborhood. By that time, the office had turned into a drop in center, due to the fact that I had started a Facebook page titled facing homelessness. The intent for me was to show people experiencing homelessness as beautiful and worth knowing. Just like all of us, it was a call to the community to come closer, and get involved with those struggling on our streets. I remember the first time Wes and I met, it was on the covered bench by the canal, right out front of my office. I don't remember who said hello first. But I do know that I have never been drawn so quickly into deep conversation by a complete stranger. And after maybe two hours, I finally said I had to go. But we promised to continue the conversation next time we saw each other. I left feeling exhilarated by the exchange. He was clearly smart, but not just that he was thoughtful and curious. He was also extremely handsome. And by that I mean captivating. His eyes were strikingly beautiful. A few days later, after another long chat, I asked West, what I had initially wanted to ask him, but didn't want to sound too eager. And that was if I could photograph him. I was getting pretty comfortable photographing folks living outside. And up until that point, I don't believe anyone had said no to me. So when I asked Wes, he said, No, I don't think so. I replied nonchalantly, okay, no worries. But my inside voice was like, what, really seriously, because like I was really wanting to photograph him. Over the next few months, Wes had figured out that my office was this place for folks living outside to come and gather to grab a coffee warm up, use the bathroom, and just chat with friends. In the front room. I had a whole wall size board, where I put up four by six black and white photos of people I was meeting that were homeless. Wes would come in, hang out, look at the photos, but never say anything about it. And then maybe four months later, one day, he just walked into my office and said, Okay, you can take my photograph. We were both smiling big, because he knew I had outweighed him. When West came into the office, to look through clothing donations, his process was unlike anyone elses. He knew exactly what he was looking for. Most of the time, he didn't take anything, nothing was quite right. He did have a look. It was this combination of being seriously nicely dressed up with some creative twist. Like the combinations shouldn't go together. But with him they did. I also remember often when Wes would see me outside, he would yell out to me from a ways off, telling me to wait. As he rushed up, he would be pulling a book out of his bag and saying, oh my god, oh my God. Have you read this book? Usually I would have to say no, which was an entry point for him to dive in telling me something wonderful that he was learning. I missed those moments. For me, it captures the charm and depth of who Wes was. One of the more difficult times I remember was when Wes was banned from the Ballard library. There was some complaint made against him, and then some further miscommunication. And suddenly, he was not allowed to visit. The library wasn't just a warm place for Wes. It was his connection to books and access to knowledge on the internet. He was in a very dark place over it. After some back and forth with library management. Wes was again allowed to visit and the struggle of it all reminded me how important something as simple as walking into a library is how easy it is to miss the barriers those experiencing homelessness have to navigate every day. books, magazines with articles he found special and family photos were all important to Wes. I started seeing lots more of him. Once I agreed to store his books and memorabilia in my architecture office. He would show up to drop something off or just to go through a book already there. His presence in my office It was something beautiful for me. I asked Mindy to help us better understand Wes his love for knowledge and books.

Mindy 45:07

When I first met him, he had a like a Rubbermaid like plastic, you know, container full of full of books and National Geographics. He loved NatGeo. And he had like a little, you know, I don't know what you call those grocery kind of rolling cart. It wasn't a it wasn't like a shopping grocery cart, but like, I don't know, he had, so we had that in there. And then his blankets, and I was always like, are you carrying all that stuff around. But he loved his books, and he always had his books. And, you know, we'd go to the affiliate bookstore in Fremont. And he knew everyone there and he knew everyone at all the libraries, because his aunt Patty, got him a subscription to National Geographic to his mailbox at the ballot food bank. And so he was super excited about that. And we would always go pick it up, and he would, you know, get it and he'd be sitting in the car, man, hey, look at this, you know, and, and then he would also, you know, give me give me presents of different Natsios and he would tell me all about him. This is for you. And Elliott gets

Rex Hohlbein 46:15

beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Makes me laugh to think I haven't thought of this before, but makes me laugh to think about how many people stored books for West at any given moment.

Mindy 46:26

I still have a box on my garage right now.

Rex Hohlbein 46:30

I wasn't I just I could see like, there may be there. 10 people out there that have Wess books scattered around the city, talking with Mindy and Martin. It reminded me of the saying it takes a village. I asked Martin how he and Mindy ended up meeting. How did you and Mindy meet where you weren't friends before? westward? You know,

Martin 46:48

no, he just all of a sudden, he'd show up with something new. And that's something frivolous it was something he needed, but it was something a little high end meaning it's more than a couple of you get that? Yeah. And no, he's like, Look at this. And then I just Mindy Mindy Mindy. Mindy bought me this. Mindy. Mindy took me to coffee. I had I had lunch with Mindy, you should meet Mindy. I talked about you to Mindy all the time. And so one day, one day, she was coming to pick him up. And so he's like, Yeah, combined me, Martin. So I got to, I got her to do see his skill sets that that I was taking advantage of. And I got to meet her because I'm thinking not so much like who's this lady giving him a fair shake too. But there was something the way he described what she you know, her and his and how she was treating him and stuff. I just thought I want this is really unique because she obviously again, it's calling we have a shared experience. I thought maybe she's got it. She she saw that thing that I saw. She registered his sincerity and his caring and that he's, he's a good person heart. And not to mention, and she had brought it up just you know how well spoken he was. But so I was eager to meet her. And we we we then and we were this sounds terrible. Maybe we will compare notes. We would text each other just saying, Well, you know, I took him to coffee today or we went to the end because he viewed her very much as a mother figure. And he to do have a lot of these sharing about his family and his paths. Were with me he wanted to share, we'd get talking about his books, and I think he somehow viewed me as being an intellectual of something. So his was all about information that he would offer me and and

Rex Hohlbein 48:46

so she was more than emotional. And you were more than intellectual. Yes. Yeah. You guys were feeding both of them. Yeah, all sides of him. So we

Martin 48:54

would we would we would to text each other to kind of to get a balanced look at what's going on with him that day. Or if he was having some issues or was going through something I would check in with her. Have you seen him? Or if I hadn't seen him a couple of days. You know, I get really worried because I would you know just I got again I got really into just having him here he became a family member that I look forward to and I know that he moves around depending on the time of the year because he wants to go places like up in Ballard and Fremont for where the parking garages are because he can stay so when he started to not come around as much and he was having trouble keeping his phone so it's like I got slightly disconnected with him and that really bothered me because I it's like when he sleeps with sleeping our driveway in front of the truck by the garage door. I always like to get up and and first thing I do is look out the window. See if you stare and see Okay, you

Rex Hohlbein 50:00

know, when I hear you talk about Mindy, it's hard not to think about it takes a village. Like if our communities were structured in that way, like we were all engaged somehow in the lives of somebody that was struggling, what a difference that would be. I mean, quite a profound difference, I think. And what's a shame is that when I talked to Mindy, and then now hearing you and others that have reached out, it's like, they all feel like they're the ones that got the most out of the deal. Yeah. Right. So it's not like a, like, it's a burden, or a, you know, something that, you know, a duty, it's actually, it's actually a gift that isn't just sitting there for all of us. But somehow, we, we, we miss it, is that's perplexing to me,

Martin 50:52

there's so much that he was giving me just by being there, you know, and I just, it's one thing to grieve a loss because it's someone you love, but it's no thing just, there's this, all this knowledge and all this experience. And a lot of times, it's just good to really hear someone's story, their arc. I mean, with Wesley, you know, he had his, his, his ramblin, you know, coming from there and going here, and this and all his experiences here in Seattle. And it's just, it's just really life affirming, because of, he seemed to all regard it as just this great adventure. To him, it was a very positive experience that you know, what he was going through, which is great. And I think that's where I had to learn, I kept thinking I'd somehow I got to alter his situation, I got to alter his thinking, because I need to plug him into my, my existence. And I think I will at one point, I just had this epiphany just to strip that away and just accept him view the world through through how he was moving through it. And it brought me a lot of joy, because I then started to experience the all the wonderful things that he gets out of a day.

Rex Hohlbein 52:11

Yeah, yeah, he did struggle. I mean, you know, I know that disconnect from family was caused a lot of pain for him. And I think those relationships, I think, relationships in general, were very important to him. And the ones that weren't working, I think, paint him, Yes, I don't know, if you would, if you experienced or have knowledge of that, as well.

Martin 52:30

I knew when I say you know, he'd make a bad decision or something, or do something. And Mindy wasn't altogether happy with him, you know, he, he'd come to me, he was so worried that it meant the end of something, he you know, I had to console him that she's angry, and she has the right to be, but she hasn't stopped loving you. And she's just needs to express that. I

Rex Hohlbein 52:53

asked Mindy how knowing West changed her life,

Speaker 2 52:56

you know, we're all just human, we're all just people are doing the best we can and no one's you know, life is ever just a straight line. And I think Wes really taught me that.

Mindy 53:12

Or how to see people, right, and people who are unhoused and on the street, and, and instead of, you know, just walking by or thinking, you know, they're not there is just really making it, you know, making me want to see them and connect with them as people. And I think for me, you know, he just really kind of opened my eyes to, to being able to to see, to see people, if that makes sense, you know, and I would always tell him, you know,

Speaker 2 53:48

I see you, you know, I see you as like a see the real West. And he knew that, you know, and he would respond to that. And in even in emails heats, you know, the real West, he's like I have more to offer. The real what's

Rex Hohlbein 54:09

powerful, I have more to offer. Yeah, speaks into the fact that most people that are homeless, feel invisible, and are seen as being kind of empty or worthless. And I think that's got to be a strong frustration and emotion in people that are outside. They're not being seen for who they are like and not and what they're good at is not being used or even seen. Right.

Mindy 54:35

Yeah. You know, I think that before I met Wes, I had a much more I don't know what to call it maybe negative view of people who are unhoused or all the issues that are happening in our city and you know, just I wasn't connected to it this closely and it really changed the way that I think about all of the issues going on in our city and an in house people in addiction and mental health. And so when I encounter house people that, you know, feel it feel like they have the answer, or why why are you know, this is a choice? Or why are these people you know, it,

Speaker 2 55:21

it upsets me, because I don't know why anyone would choose to be homeless, you know, and I don't, I don't think they do. And I think the West really showed me that. It's just so complex, you know,

Mindy 55:37

there's no easy, easy answer. And and I'm, you know, I'm a college graduate, I have a job,

Unknown Speaker 55:44

I'm a functioning,

Mindy 55:46

you know, person in society. And let me tell you, it was really hard to find services in terms of housing for him. And treatment. It's just nothing's connected. It's hard. And so if I, if I can't even do it, I'm like, how how, how is someone you know, who who doesn't have the advantages I have had in my life? How are they supposed to do it? You know, it's

Rex Hohlbein 56:09

impossible. Honestly, I've been on phones before, many, many time occurrence, especially when I first started doing this, where I would be talking to somebody on the phone, and after 45 minutes, I'd have a certain level of frustration, I would just say, look, I run an architectural practice. I have my architecture degree.

Speaker 3 56:29

I'm functioning in society, like I have, I'm, like, really present with you right now. I don't know what you're telling me. I can't figure out. I'm standing here with, you know, with Sam. And I've explained this to you, and I can't understand what you're saying the next best step for this person is I can't that I thought, if I can't do that, and I have all I had a good night's sleep my bellies frayed, right. And I'm clear minded, and I'm not medicating, and I can navigate it.

Mindy 57:03

There's a problem. Yeah, something's really wrong. And it doesn't, doesn't make sense why it's so hard and why things just aren't connected. What

Rex Hohlbein 57:14

would you say to someone who's nervous about reaching out to somebody on the street? Gosh,

Mindy 57:22

I would say just say, Hello, just ask some questions. Just get to know someone, you don't have to invite them over to your home, when you first talk to them. You don't have to, you know, give them a ride anywhere in your car. Just just just take that first step. You know, any, I think you'll be really surprised at the response. I think that a lot of times too, when I have actually, you know, engage someone who's unhoused they're shocked. You know what I mean? That they look at you and they're like, are you? You're talking to talk to me? Exactly. And then, um, it's really good experience. And I always try to ask people, what's your name? You know what I mean? Because I think for a lot of people are in house. No one ever asked them their name, like in a feel like, you know, it helps them to because it reminds them like, Hey, this is me.

Rex Hohlbein 58:23

And I'm really here, and I'm

Mindy 58:25

here.

Rex Hohlbein 58:26

Yeah, yeah. So who was West Green. We know through his friends, in his community that he loved books and knowledge. He was thoughtful, and caring, he would regularly give his clothing away to those who needed them more. He was genuine and profound. He was very well dressed, and very good looking. His relationships with other people meant the world to him. We also know that Wes was using fentanyl with his intake increasing dramatically at the end. Mindy and Martin were becoming alarmed.

Martin 59:04

thrilly The last time I saw him was the night he died. He called me and said, Can I see you? I said sure come by. And he says like, no, I need to see right now. So I'm like, dude, I'll be just tell me where I'll be there. He was really despondent because him and Mindy had had an argument about him and taking fentanyl and being responsible. And I just kept reassuring him that, you know, it's okay. You know, we, our anger is an expression of our fear and our concern. We don't know how to process it. I told him, I said, I myself have lost too many people to addiction. I said, I can't lose you. I can't lose you. I just want him to know that. Just because we're unhappy with something doesn't mean we don't love him and he seems to just He would get really fixated on Oh, this kind of like, this is the end. I'm like, Dude, no, no, this is what goes on. This is what happens with people. And I, you know, there's just this one weird vibe I was getting, you know, at the time. And he wasn't feeling well, because he had done fentanyl the day before. And that really made him sick. And so I knew that he his the frequency by which he was taking it was increasing. And I knew probably at this point, he's addicted, because you know, he'd been messing with it for a couple months now. And I haven't had say, a chemical dependency to be able to commiserate with that kind of unique craving that kind of unique physical and emotional pain that it brings. I told him, I know that I talked to you about stop drinking, but I don't care about that, if we could just put our attention to this one thing. Again, I just begged him I got, I just can't sound self out, it was just like, I can't lose you, you are too important to me. He just seems so out of sorts, he would have these bouts of, you know, he's these really highs where he'd company, you almost think he was on something. But he was just his mind was clicking, and he was super excited and super happy. And it could be a bit much to handle. But it was, you know, he was feeling good. And then he and I could relate to this. And I would tell him I know, I know exactly what you're feeling because he would get here and he'd be really depressed and going through something and. And like depression, it's not centered around a thing. It's just it is it's just an experience and a pain is not anchored to anything. And so that's where it confuses us. Because we think that oh, my, this happens. So therefore, I'm feeling poorly. It's just you feel poorly, and it gets confusing and painful. And we had so you know, that's when I'd really take time off to spend the day with him or tell him to stay around the house, you know, you know, I'll be back later, or I take him with me on my projects and just keep him close. If he wanted to talk I was there. But also just

Speaker 4 1:02:14

I don't know, I just loved him. And I just, again, wanted to know that I completely understand what he was going through. He's not alone. And I know it makes sense. That not what I'm saying. But what he was feeling it doesn't make sense to. That's what depression is so weird, because it's occurring it. It's just it's not grounded in anything. It's just there.

Rex Hohlbein 1:02:46

And both Martin and Mindy are deeply affected by Wes, his passing, I asked what they would like to say to Wes, what would you want to say to Wes?

Speaker 2 1:02:58

You know, I wouldn't want to say that. I love you, Wes. And I'm sorry that though we couldn't get you into the dream and brogrammer day that, you know, we were in the middle of a disagreement, the last time that I talked to him. And I'm just I'm sorry that it couldn't do more, you know, I'm sorry. And I also wouldn't want to tell him, you know, thank you for bringing just so much richness and joy to my life and for allowing me to, to know and see the real West. You know, I do have a lot of guilt. You know, what if this what if one of the treatments that I would have been open on Monday when I took him there, and he wanted to go in? What if I would have gotten him his hotel room on the other night? You know, and not the night? I did because it was so much colder that night? Oh, just a lot of things that they just click on different, you know, he would still be here. And so I just I

Rex Hohlbein 1:04:15

know you know this, but you know that you can't take that on? You know that what else you know that? I know, I mean doesn't mean that those feelings aren't there. But at the bottom of it, you have to know that you made you made Wess perhaps five months of his life extremely rich and beautiful. And he no doubt felt your love. You know, I also I also loved my friendship with him. And I'm grateful that he met you and got to enjoy your presence and your gifts.

Speaker 2 1:04:46

Yeah, and I think you know, I think was smiling right now because he had all these people you know, and he would mention you to me and he would mention so many people and I feel like Now, he's connecting all of us. And I feel you know, that's such a great thing. And he would be so happy about that.

Rex Hohlbein 1:05:11

What would you say to him right now? If he was here,

Speaker 4 1:05:13

I think but I always tell him this. I love you, buddy. I love you more than you know, because I'm not sure he got or maybe he did that how much he meant to me. And, and just having him around him being in the house for the day when I was kicking around here or hanging out on the porch and just sitting with him and or coming home and he's there. On the porch just lit me up. I was like, Oh, great. I don't think he realized how much that meant to be to find him here. And I know when he was getting ready to mosey on, you know, to wherever he's gonna sleep or something that I always say you treat oh, what else? I it was kind of sad. It's kind of like, you know, your friend asked to go home now, but I wanted to keep playing.

Rex Hohlbein 1:06:05

Martin is in the process of opening up a coffee shop. He had put that idea on the back burner. But when telling Wes, Wes inspired him to follow through on his dream. Now Martin is motivated more than ever to get to the grand opening of his coffee shop. He reflected about a time earlier, when he shared his project with Wes.

Martin 1:06:27

I have this notebook with all my drawings, it shows the concept of the whole thing. And so his mind was just like, wow. And I guess though he seemed excited ish at the time, he would not stop talking to Mindy about it. Like, oh my God, oh, my God. And then it came up again, where he he was talking about what's it going to take to get it going? And it just it did. I would say he actually reignited me to like, his encouragement that made me like, I gotta take some time and really focus on seeing what it will take this beautiful. So again, I think it would, it would have been a kind of a joint effort. Just last week, I was down there, Britain demolition your wall and putting stuff away. And I just thought we have that we if he was still here, we'd be having the time of our lives because he'd be in there work in and he could bust stuff up. And he'd just be making all kinds of observations. He's you got West talking, and he's kind of seeing the really thoroughly articulating what he thinks and feels about these things. It was so unique and so fascinating.

Rex Hohlbein 1:07:37

When is your you know, your opening date yet?

Martin 1:07:41

To not because it's all contingent on the availability of certain materials and contractors coming in. I figure I will, will kind of open sometime in April, because I'll need most of February to get this pulled together. And I have kind of thought about, you know, what am I going to do when I open for people who are like Wes, who just maybe they do want to come in, maybe they want something but they don't have the means but at least they get the get something I just thought I'd always be offering them a cup of coffee, or water. And my mind just keeps flipping, getting stuck on one point is just that I still wanted to just have West his table for that, you know, he'd always have a place to come and sit and be for all day. And just cuz sometimes he that's all he wanted, be someplace and quiet. And spend time with his books

Rex Hohlbein 1:08:37

you know me now is produced, written and edited by Tomas Vernadsky. And me, Rex Holbein. We would like to thank Dizzy Martin, Mindy and Brenda for taking the time to speak with us. Also a special thank you to Wes his family who helped us understand his early years. There'll be a memorial for West at the Fremont library on April 22. From one to 3pm. It is open to the public and we hope you'll join us you know me now has a Facebook and Instagram page where you can join in on the conversation. We also have a website at WWW dot you Nomi now.com where you can see photos of West as well as read other stories of folks we feel you should know. Thanks as always for listening