Rex Hohlbein 0:02

This podcast contains potentially sensitive topics, including strong language, drug abuse, and other conditions of human suffering. Listener discretion is advised.

Can you please start by telling why we don't have the 10 or so minutes that we already wrote? Sure. Sure. Sure.

Dizzy 0:21

Remember that?

Unknown Speaker 0:22

Why is that? Why do we not have that you're

Dizzy 0:24

an idiot? No. You just want me to say that. He just said yes, it's the greatest thing, because I am. Miss some really great stuff. Probably the best part of this whole interview, I would have made made this podcast actually worth listening to, but it striped all the rest of them so far now. So you might as well just change the channel.

Rex Hohlbein 0:42

It could have been it could have been something. Okay, let's set it over. I'm Rex Holbein and welcome to you know me now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community. I want to remind all of our listeners that the folks who share here, do so with a great deal of vulnerability and courage. They share a common hope that by giving all of us a window into their world, they will be opening for us an increased level of awareness, understanding and connection within our own community. The issue of homelessness is extremely complex for everyone, as citizens, knowing how to respond to solutions put forward by government, and nonprofits is it best difficult, it often requires a deeper understanding of the issue than most of us have. Even more overwhelming can be knowing how to respond personally when our own life path crosses with someone who is experiencing homelessness. In these moments, we often struggle with what the right thing to do is, and while there are many ways to engage to be of service to those in need. Often what is overlooked is the significance of simple human connection of just listening and being there. What does becoming a friend with someone experiencing homelessness look like? In this episode, we're going to be talking with Michael Holmes, also known by his stage named Dizzy Lee Roth. Hey, Dizzy Good to see you.

Dizzy 2:24

Hey, Rex, it's great to see you as always.

Rex Hohlbein 2:28

This he has a gecko tattoo above his right eye. it crawls right through and out of his eyebrow. Dizzy has his old band name tattooed across both butt cheeks and he's happy to show it to you. If you care to ask. Dizzy is smart, I would say really smart, dizzy as a musician. He formed and played in a number of well known Seattle bands mostly in the 1990s. Dizzy is funny. Dizzy is friendly and quick to laugh. Even when times are tough. Does he is addicted to heroin. Does he busks for his money. Does he is homeless. Does he is my friend

does he and I met eight years ago at gasworks Park. He was living there in a tent. And today does he lives in a shipping container located in a working industrial yard along the Ship Canal in Seattle. His container or I should say his home is stacked on top of several other containers. He has electricity, but no indoor plumbing and there are no windows in his container. To get to his place. You come through a locked chain link fence. Climb a flight of wooden open stairs to the top of a container which is completely littered with construction supplies and bags of garbage. And by the way, there is no railing. You make your way from there to the other side across a 15 inch gap to the top of another container before walking 12 feet or so to disease sliding metal front door. If you turn around, you get a most stunningly beautiful view of the Ballard bridge and the Ship Canal. Disease space is a total mess. And while it's his mess, he does bother him I would say immensely. When I visit he quickly apologizes and cleans off a spot for me to sit. I personally don't mind the mess and I tell him to please stop apologizing. It is sensory overload though the walls are covered with graffiti and the floor with all his stuff. A half size refrigerator propane tanks, in tables lamps, a chair garbage and more. The places is full. half eaten food can be found on a good deal of the whole was on all surfaces. Oh, and musical equipment. About seven guitars, a number of amps and other digital musical equipment is strewn around. When I walked in today, I stepped over a clarinet just inside the door. All of that said, I really love his place. It's him. It's dizzy. And it's much, much better than the broken down minivan he was living in just a few months ago. And the years of tense before that.

Now to understand just a little of who Dizzy is, let's first go back in time and hear about his childhood. Okay,

Dizzy 5:40

so yeah, I was born. I was born in Mesa, California. It's a senator County. We live in alcohol, which is right next to La Mesa. My dad worked at nights. He, he drank, he always drank, you know, and be correcting my mom, I would say and so she started having an affair. Like many people, I have both a dad and the father. My dad, his name is low Holmes. He was married to my mother, Carol. But he did not inseminate her with the demon seed that became me. That was dead by then a bob McGrail. The family

Rex Hohlbein 6:23

long suspected that disease mother was having an affair. Often, she would leave him in his sister's at home alone, sometimes all night as their dad, at that time was working the graveyard shift.

Dizzy 6:36

At which point my dad sister and my aunt, Betty had a private detective for my mom, because because they knew she was having an affair. And she wanted to have her declared an unfit mother. And so and that's what happened. And so my dad got custody of us. So but anyway, so my, that was all documented show in court. My mom lost custody, my dad got custody. It

Speaker 1 6:58

was unusual in the 60s for a father to get sole custody. Since his dad was working. He relied on his sister Betty to take care of the kids.

Dizzy 7:06

So my dad would usually rouse the three of us up at around 430 Friday morning, drop us off at my aunt's house, where he would go to work because she was a homemaker. Back in the 60s when when women still did that in like most women did that. My dad worked either at Convair or General Dynamics. Condor being a subsidiary of General Dynamics, a defense contractor, by the way. They're in San Diego. And my uncle was an executive at General Dynamics. Little side note, view my dad's drinking problem. He lost his job several times, due to his brother in law being one of the top executives at General Dynamics. He got his job back several times. That's more of how my dad was kind of spoiled. You know? Like he got he woke up and he got his job back, you know, because of connections. Yeah, when he'd come home from pick us up from work, he'd very often stuff at the bar on the way home because kids in the car, because that's what he did. Basically, he had he had a serious alcohol problem, you know, that rules his wife, you know, yeah, farmer and he suffered.

Rex Hohlbein 8:15

Disease dad would leave him in his two older sisters in the car for two, three, sometimes eight hours at a time. While he was in the bar drinking as kids. They didn't think much of it. It was just what it was. Luckily, disease Aunt Betty was a good and caring person who did try her best to provide a stable home. It was not always easy does he admits he was difficult on his aunt, just sharing about it makes him tear up.

Dizzy 8:45

I started going to school around five like most kids do, I went to kindergarten. And before that I usually spent the days I spent the day but weekends with my aunt, my sisters are in school, and I would stay with my aunt during the day. You know, she said I was a pretty good kid, you know? But one time they did give me a little toolkit. And the screws for the doorknobs were right about eye height for me. And so while she was watching her stories, they call it back to him soap operas. I took all the doorknobs off the inside of the house. And she couldn't get out and see what so she was a homemaker. She didn't know how to put that shit back together. She she could not get out of the house. So I start, I start school and like, second or third day, they're like, We need a parent teacher conference. This kid is a fucking hell you admit you know? It's like, totally out of control. Totally disrupting class, you know? Totally just doing what I want to get out. All the doorknobs are gone. I'll be doorknobs or gotten out of school. Yeah. That's when the survey took me to the doctor and of course, decided I was hyperactive and put me on Ritalin at the age of five. From kindergarten to third grade. I went through a succession of you more potent and harder to get amphetamines and methamphetamines. I went from I believe, Ritalin to Benzedrine. To a prelude in which I'm not sure if that sticks over me software or metronome me, to dexedrine, which is methamphetamine and then deduction. But I was in fourth grade they had me absorption, which I mean that's, that's, that's good shit. As far as fee goes, you can't really get this option anymore. Those pills didn't really help. They did not, you know, I was still pretty out of control, you know, but they kept feeding them to me anyway. And then at some point in the fourth grade, they had switched me to fetal Barbra tal

Speaker 1 10:43

I asked him what it was like for him in school being hyperactive.

Dizzy 10:48

From the time I was in kindergarten. And they've always put me in mixed classes. So when I when I was in kindergarten, they put me in a class with a couple other kids where we were actually in with first graders. And in first grade, I was hit with the same same group of kids, we actually went to the second grade class, they were moving, we kind of skipped kindergarten, you know? Because, you know, at that time, drawing pictures of crayons, with crayons wasn't, you know, Mike women, one day lamp significant school on the way home. Just nostalgia does it to me, sometimes. I told them which trees were deciduous and which ones are evergreen. Because I learned that that day, another day, she picked me up and I destroyed the Coriolis effect to her. So drawing stuff with crayons wasn't cutting it, you know, for me and a couple other games, you know, and so they moved us up, though I was, I guess, smart and very aware of certain things. In another sense. You could do the meditation and I hyperactivity, I was also very oblivious to a lot. You know.

Unknown Speaker 11:52

You're in your own world. Kind of,

Dizzy 11:54

I think a lot of times it came up as rude. You know, you know, I mean, we just do like, you know, he's just horrible child.

Rex Hohlbein 12:01

When talking with Dizzy, he freely shares about unresolved issues from his childhood and how those emotions heavily informed his interactions today, such as, how feelings of abandonment work their way into his present day relationships. He also knows he was fortunate to have his Aunt Betty Fillon as a surrogate mother, and his uncle as a positive male figure in his life. Oh, my

Dizzy 12:26

uncle used to take me up in a Cessna plane when I was a little kid, and that was pretty special. I'll never forget that. You know, just how cool that was. Him being such a quiet, stoic, sort of guy and just just annoying little kid. But he knew that, you know, I'm sure he probably saw my eyes light up and taught. Oh, yeah, I'm taking him. Dude, I was so hyperactive. I mean, I can I can kind of remember being on the tarmac with him and just jumping up and down yelling plain, plain plain, you know, and he didn't go

Unknown Speaker 12:59

Shut up. So they have more than once. Oh,

Dizzy 13:02

yeah. It was something we do every other weekend or so. We go to Gillespie field there in Oklahoma and eat breakfast at the little restaurant there. And then grew up and part of the plane up to pick up, Grunt over Catalina Island and look and see gray whales and all this other cool stuff. Well, sounds beautiful. And then once a while each said you want to try to fly the plane. I'm sure he blinked on the wheel. And after about one second he goes because that would you know, I'd like to call on it and turn it in plain sight. Or you can't really do that in a Cessna. Yeah, but he tried. You

Speaker 1 13:33

know, here, it sounds like he Let you be you.

Dizzy 13:37

He tried. But I can say he was very stoic. He didn't have a whole lot of time for me. You know, I wasn't his kid, you know. But yeah, when he was kind, he was really timed. In retrospect, I kind of wish I had been a little closer to my uncle, you know, you know, natural childhood rebellion. As good points as it's bad points. You know, you might have an uncle they're getting older too, because they're older than my dad, you know, they're they already raised their kids. And the kids went off to college and had successful lives. They didn't really, you know, especially my uncle, I'm thinking they really didn't need a high school kid to you know, do all that shit you got to do with the high school kid, you know, you know, they they were by no means neglectful. They because they got shuffled back and forth between my dad my aunt and uncle and stuff. A real super close bond. I mean, I mean a super close bond like where you really trust this person never really formed. I don't want to make excuses for anything too. But I think a lot of it has to do with the Why spend so long homeless lab hard time being employed, you know, I'm not at I have skills I like to work. It's kind of a vicious cycle that feeds on itself to you know, you know, they say that a lot of you Oh, they think the world owes and I kind of feel some event my fucking road sort of owes me most sometimes, you know, but at the same time, my mind maybe I I got to pick myself up

Rex Hohlbein 15:02

for dizzy. School was difficult, not because he wasn't smart and actually far from it, but because his ADHD was not allowing him to excel in the structured school setting, despite all the medications he was on. Often, he was seen as a troublemaker. In fact, Dizzy saw himself that way, too. It wasn't due to a mean or bad streak within him. But rather due to his overactive mind, it kept him from settling down and fitting in. As he grew older, he found community or perhaps I should say, his chosen family, through friendships, those friendships were gathering around the one thing does he really cared about, and was good at. And that was

Dizzy 15:51

music. My uncle had this. This gives him a guitar that he kept in the closet, you know, and it was a Gibson is a nice guitar, you know, it was such but I would sneak in there anyway. And I would just pluck the stood, just get it open enough to where I can pluck the strings to it and do that until I got caught. And then they got me one then when I was in second grade, when I was seven years old. And I pretty much took to it and played it all the time. I wouldn't have been played more country music back then. Because I think my uncle would have seen it and maybe been more jazzed about when you're in high school, your music that you listen to means so much to you, and you're so opinionated about it. And it's so representative of who you are. And any other kind of music, especially your parents music is is you're against that, you know, you know now and later in life, I just got really sprung on it, you know, and if I think about against front and back then I probably maybe you know, would have had a shot at getting a decent guitar. But yeah, I'm playing along to records in my room, you know, a little jam for some other people, but nothing too serious, you know,

Rex Hohlbein 16:58

during disease, formative years in Southern California, the lack of direction and guidance from adults in his life, started to show up in ways that were destructive for him. His behavior had long term damaging effects on his relationships. To this day, he regrets some of the things he did during those years.

Dizzy 17:18

You know, because I mean, this is how it goes. When you have older, you have older siblings, when you're young, they beat you up because they're bigger than you. When you get older. You beat them up because you get bigger than them. It's payback time. So there was that and it was nothing super violent, though at one point, you know, I did. I remember I chased I chased one or both of my sisters around the house with a knife once in my mind and in my heart. I didn't picture me catching them and stabbing them. I pictured them be terrified of me, you know?

Speaker 1 17:49

How old are you? Well, how old were you when you had that knife chasing them?

Dizzy 17:52

Oh, like 1516 Yeah, I was a young man.

Speaker 1 17:57

Did you have any run ins with law before coming to Washington?

Dizzy 18:02

We had a couple I got caught shoplifting at a at the mall. They're not going like 13 or something. And I said to him he pregnant so tough without that bad you know? And he took me outside and I'm like Iveco so what's gonna happen? He goes, you're trying to escape? And then actually I know I woke up, you know, I was getting put in the car. But yeah, so he took me down in an IV put asleep around me and threw me around a little bit. I had to split it up into Star putting split up put it on a sleeper hold. Oh, yeah, like the time that they killed that guy at that cellar in New York. So cold type thing? Yeah. When I was in like, eighth grade, I I called McDonald's with a bomb stretch. And I told him I wanted $50,000 and to drop it off at my school, you know? And then I went walked around the school. And there was my principal. And this is on a weekend and I'm not putting any of this together my payments from Etsy. He's working with some guy who was detective and it took them about three seconds for me to be Gregor. And so they charged me with extortion. You know, kids playing a prank I'm, you know, I mean, I was so young that they said a woman called, you know, because it's like girls voice. Yeah. They said it was some woman that made the bomb threat. So yeah, they charged me with extortion. I went to juvenile hall for that. I

Rex Hohlbein 19:27

want to stop and reflect on this moment in disease childhood. People often ask, How does someone fall into homelessness? Is it really that we are all just two paychecks away from it, waiting for a crisis to come into our lives? Yes, sometimes. That is exactly it. But most of the time, the reasons for homelessness are much more complex than just that. Often it begins early in childhood, where a path is being said, generational poverty. Poor foster care mental health issues such as the many forms of trauma, systemic barriers, such as racism, all of these and more, can knock children off their path of developing a strong self esteem and the needed life skills to live a healthy, productive life. Almost all kids are mischievious, looking to test the edges, actually calling in a bomb threat, as a plan for getting money is a completely different thing. When hearing the path of disease childhood, it becomes easier to understand how he got to the point of making that call, and further have that experience of going to juvenile hall joined the list of other experiences that are all connected to his homelessness.

Dizzy 20:50

I wish that at some point, one of them could have said, you know, be ever Do you ever look at yourself and wonder, you know, what am I going to do? Not necessarily, what are you going to be or anything but, you know, if I was so smart, why didn't they talk to me more adult? Like, you know, you know, I don't it's, it's, I don't fault them for it, I'm certainly did the best I knew how, I don't know, one thing that I actually kind of resent is their absolute failure to see that no matter what, I was going to be a musician. And they, you know, if beta nurtured that, for better or for worse, if they did nurture that, I'm pretty sure. Not necessarily that I would be starting, but I do have a bit of a gift from God. And I think a lot of times with something like that, you know, they're always about, well, you know, you've got to have something to fall back on. You know, it's like, I don't know why they didn't see, you know, this kid is seven years old, and he's playing and singing songs, you know, correctly. Pretty good. You know, this is what he's going to do is, it's a challenge, let's nurture it, maybe we're totally against it, you know, it's a little bit hard for me to see the good stuff, you know, because, you know, my life being what it is, you know, I have to look back and go, you know, where did I go wrong, you know, and so I just see parts of my childhood where I was just so uninformed, you know, and then and then I do tend to blame that a little bit on the people that raised me, it's like, God, you know, I wish somebody would have sat me down and told me hope bucked up the world is because they know, they knew, you know, and it's not like they tried to paint the picture that the world was a great rosy place, they just never bothered either way. But, you know, I mean, somebody needs to sit down with a young person and you know, with in a non judgmental way, find out where they're going, what they're doing, and that they care about them help them out with that all they told me about, you know, the truth of the world is that I had a one of those zillion chance of making it as a musician, I should find something to fall back on, which I resent, you know. I mean, there is truth to it, but every interview with like a musician that I hear that may be sound like me when their child, you know, I was totally engulfed with music, you know, I mean, they sound like what, like me, you know? Only they were, you know, their parent was cool and bought them a guitar or a drum set or what fucking they ever, you know, and

Unknown Speaker 23:18

the ones who hear about, yeah, well,

Dizzy 23:21

the rest of them are probably like me, whoo, whoo. Well, but you take my uncle, for example. He wanted to be a musician when he was younger, too. And he gave it up. And he must have been pretty good because he picked up the trombone again after he retired. And after a few years, he was pretty good. He had some soul you know.

Rex Hohlbein 23:39

Besides disease, love for music. There has been another defining constant in his life. And that is drugs. Beginning in early childhood, doctors prescribed various and ever increasingly potent medications for his ADHD, including barbiturates at the age of nine. These early prescribed drugs, transition for dizzy to recreational drugs as he grew older, other than times spent in jail, Dizzy has been medicated his entire life. He will tell you, it is difficult for him to know who he is when unmedicated

Dizzy 24:16

in California you can kind of play in the sewers, you know, because it's warm and they have sewers that are just run off water they're not they don't have shit in them, you know. And we will play in the sewers a lot. Yeah, so we we played with these huge storm drains and stuff there were ones beginning to ride your bike in and we have this tree fort and then these older kids would come to the tree fort and they would smoke pot and lead roaches. So we started picking up these roaches and smoking them. You know? So that's basically when I started smoking pot. I was getting in trouble. I was getting trouble my dad couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 24:44

So did your sisters also go to your aunt or was it just you just me? Yeah, yeah,

Dizzy 24:49

they were hammelmann they were going to school get grades I was ditching min getting loaded.

Speaker 1 24:56

Yeah. Was your and a huggy nurture. You're kind of kind, kind of emotional woman that way like she could connect with you. Or was she just doing a good house? Because she

Dizzy 25:12

she deserved better.

Speaker 1 25:16

As does he reached high school with no real mentorship around him? He was freely experimenting with alcohol and other drugs.

Dizzy 25:24

Yeah, just kind of weed and booze and things that junior high, bad junior high kids or, you know, elementary kids get into, you know, was kind of, I wanted to be cool and hip, you know, and it was just falling out of the hippie era into the 70s era, you know, basically ready to try anything. I used to steal my aunt's Valium, her 10 milligram Valium. You know, I didn't realize back then at all that like picking six of the 10 milligram volume was valium was a hell of a lot of Valium. I would never do that. Now. I would never do that. But I used to do I used to take vaccines and go to a CAGR twice or two or maybe three times when I'm when I'm taking a good amount of Valium. I've got my nose broke at Find a big dude and you're just spoke with him. He's looking, beat me up, you know, I'd fuck with him until he beat me up three times. So that's whatever action or attitude goes along with that is how it would make me act. And one time I took six with him and went to a carrier with $2 in my hand for a kid Yep. And I woke up and I had a pinch bead and a half out to tie stick and I to him and 50 bucks. Who was just the word came from if you got bigger numbers to you on the bike.

Speaker 1 26:42

So then it was so then from Valium. You You also had speed enter into the picture. And

Dizzy 26:50

at some point, you know, it was just well started doing snorting the last peeve of mine, my buddy Tim, from high school, you know, we were close friends, we like to see music. We he had a camper outside of his friend's house in the yard, you know, so we kind of get away from the parents and and hang up their shirts are pretty cool anyway, they didn't care if we smoked pot or whatever

Rex Hohlbein 27:12

disease drug use was spiraling out of control. He was bouncing around living with his mother, father and couchsurfing. During this time, his uncle and aunt retired and moved to North Bend Washington, which is a small community located east of Seattle in the foothills of the Cascade Mountains. At one point does he reached out to his aunt and uncle incited to come stay with them as he needed to get away from Southern California. I knew

Dizzy 27:40

that what I was doing California was bad. You know? Should you get much speed?

Speaker 1 27:46

Did Can I ask coming here was it? Was it an effort to change that

Dizzy 27:51

you have a change couple things the girl had been seeing and cheat on me and a friend of mine. And I was kind of stalking her with really bad intentions in my mind. You know, you know, I was pretty young, you know, but I was gonna tell myself, you know, I'm gonna kill her. You know? I don't know if I wouldn't, but I left I got away. I mean, it was the first time I ever let her she just totally betrayed me. I was I could not fathom that two people could be in love be lovers be this close. make promises to one another. And woman just not mean, she was like, I was like 18 to 27. I always viewed it as like a fucking sacred magical thing where it's supposed to be viewed, you know, the fairy tale was supposed to happen. You know, you

Speaker 1 28:40

were doing you wanted to do some harm, whether you would have or not.

Dizzy 28:43

I did I did you know. And so I met? I don't. It's weird. I don't like talking about that. Because Should I have stayed down there and follow through or something, I would be a totally different person. I would, I would, you know if it was a prison for something like that. It would be labeled that and I would be that

Rex Hohlbein 29:05

does. He arrives in the Seattle area around 1988 and lives with his aunt and uncle who are now older and retired and quite frankly, are not too excited to have him there. His life is revolving around working odd jobs, friends, music, and drugs.

Dizzy 29:23

I got a job with a cabinet company at downs custom cabinetry. And while there I met this guy Marvin, who also play guitar. I guess musicians, we're just kind of attracted to each other somehow. We find each other in places. And so I said hanging out with Marvin and we put together a band called crypt. And there was also a local drummer Donnie, who was in the band with us our bass player Ted lived out in Kirkland. So had that band for few years and that band kind of split up and didn't really go anywhere with that band. We made recording them little recordings with all the data They were kind of an you know, they're all right. And then I entered an agile to be in a top 40 duo, just me and another guy and a computer, traveled around the country and played music, cover songs in bars. And that was a pretty good experience. You know, we had like a two hour set that we played twice a night. So when you're doing that, every like say Thursday, Friday, Saturday, sometimes Sunday or the Wednesday we get thrown in there to your chumps get pretty good pretty fast, because you know, it's infection like four hours a night, every night, playing, praying and singing, and I can sing sing 80% of material in that band, at least. And then we finally took it from a duo. I got John Donnie to join that band. And then we got another guitarist from bass player. And we had a five piece doing basically the same song with the Shangri La better. And then suddenly, he had this he him and he ended up joining Miss Glavine. And yet him and somebody else from out Levin had an apartment on Capitol Hill, the one right next to City Market used to be Malstrom. Just remember that there's an apartment building right next to that's one of the sleaziest ones on Capitol Hill, we lived there. And that place was super cheap to and there was like, five or six of us living there. So come rent time, you know, it was come up with 50 bucks, you know, you know, and young and full of energy and lifestyle and tariffs slept on the floor, you know, there was nothing, it was great. You know, it was great. We were having a good time, you know? And

Speaker 1 31:32

are you making? I know, you said, don't make money doing that, but were you making money? I mean, were you thinking

Dizzy 31:38

about money at that time, a lot of times, I would drink up my check, you know, because it was at bars, and I was, you know, I was having a great time, you know, I was just getting drunk. And so like, at the end of the week, when he would do have to check, you know, he explained make sense to us, Jean, whatever leader you go, Okay, so 50% Give up the top to the agent, that's that. And then you get to each individually and only go, you know, Donna, your, your, what you made? Was this, your bar tab was this, and then 10% for gas, and is what you're left with. And maybe we get to mine and he would say it all and maybe go to you oh the band. So I wouldn't have any money. I would owe the band over the next year. So when we got over that it was it was like it was like getting out of prison. I mean that I had no way to live. I didn't really know anybody because I'd been gone for a year. And I called my uncle again, you know, and said, You know, I promise you I'll get a job right away, which I did. I got a job at McDonald's. You know, I was there. By that time. I was like 2728 You know, they want me to cut my hair and become management. And that was a and I do not regret that you weren't going to climb the McDonald ladder. No, I wasn't gonna we're not gonna climb the ladder. After that, ran into Donnie again, me and Donnie, we were pretty tight to the whole music thing for like, at least, you know, 1015 years or something. And I moved to downtown Seattle. And I got a job at the off ramp. Being a barback and bussing tables and stuff. Just played around a bit then and then I got to Well, I knew a guy who was shipped from Arizona and his whole band and quit and went on to Arizona and so I joined up with him and we toured around playing original music for maybe six months or something that was really fun is totally different than top 40. The top 40 You know, they they had accommodations for you. And then the DIY tours. You know, we tried to get accommodations at somebody's house before we camp you know, and that was more fun. They didn't really make any money at Betty but also had a great time. And then eventually eventually formed this band Zeke with Johnny that when we made a recording with that band, I mean like all the other bands they'd make recordings with us and be like, oh, yeah, you know, that sounds pretty good. Yeah, you're telling yourself but then when later recording with Zeke, it was just like, Oh man, I know all that other stuff. When I was telling somebody condors cage because it was crap you know because this kicks ass

like when you when you finally with a girl who you know loves you I mean then either all those other times you kind of had doubts in your gut that just because of you know, it wasn't it wasn't the real thing. And this was the real thing.

Unknown Speaker 34:27

When you were you guys getting attention Oh yeah,

Dizzy 34:29

we're getting attention read right I'm having a teacher got biggest course when I quit. And then I joined another band called Shark Gemma we did all right. Do you know

Speaker 1 34:39

did you have did you have personal goals that this was gonna really go somewhere was that was at the height. Those two bands for you? For your music kind of aspirations will

Dizzy 34:51

have my aspirations but for as far as what I got done, I think so. Up to this point. Yeah.

Speaker 1 35:00

And then what happened? What after shark shows? Oh,

Dizzy 35:04

well, the whole time I was it was I was. I was writing myself up between drugs and music and you know, of course drugs went out because, you know, addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful man wants to kill me.

Speaker 1 35:23

It is easy to miss how important disease talents contributed to the late 80s and early 90s developing Pacific Northwest music scene.

Rex Hohlbein 35:33

heckler magazine had this to say about Zeke, quote, welcome the new Monsters of Rock. It's no doubt true that West Coast punk Thrashers Zeek are monsters. Ever since their first gig at the Rock City in Seattle in 1993. People have had no choice but to pay attention. Their records will assault you and their live shows will batter you. Zeke established a nasty disposition while cutting teeth on their own brash hardcore punk. All music magazine said quote, a punishing American hardcore unit based out of Seattle, Washington, Zeke's Gatling gun riffing and bluesy hard rock demeanor draw as much from heavy metal particularly speed and thrash as punk splitting the difference between Motorhead and Black Flag? Does he seems a little more bashful about Zeke,

Dizzy 36:25

is it really in the middle of it, you know, kind of on the edge of it kind of. But we were, were given them the rest of the scene, we were really in the scene, I mean, rubber bands that were in a scene like this, you know, really, really at betters favorite bands at one time. Really? So so so he says, you know,

Unknown Speaker 36:50

that's a big thing.

Dizzy 36:51

Oh, I guess I mean, you know, Mark is very interested in how to get punk rock brownie points. Live in two years, it was during the heat pump or wherever that theory like the band, why wouldn't you like the band and music.

Rex Hohlbein 37:09

In the more recent years, Disney has been trying to get by financially by busking on Seattle streets. He has a simple setup and a small amp and guitar that he takes with him to grocery stores, and other venues where he can set up and play for people.

Dizzy 37:24

I've just played less over the past few years, I haven't really had anything going on. I've been busking every day. But busking is a right now, as far as rock and roll goes, I'm really out of shape. And really out of shape. My fear, dexterity is way behind the diminished my picking hand, strength, accuracy, and dexterity infamous is way back. That's why I took my practice regime while I started a practice regime again. But I'd gone back about 30 years, you know, I'll get back up to here, it won't take me 30 years to get back to where I was, you know, but I need to practice relatively intently for like three or four months to be really, if I went out and auditioned for a band now, probably probably wouldn't make it you know, I mean, there's some people that would hire me to be you know, hire, like, paid, but hire me to be in their band, just because I was in the kitchen kind of who I am, you know, and what you could get back to? Yeah, and and I still have a tiny bit of pool here and there. You know, I still connected you know, so why

Speaker 1 38:35

do you why do you suppose you've slid drugs as your use gone up?

Dizzy 38:44

Well, like I say, when the the receiving fucked up?

Unknown Speaker 38:45

Never.

Dizzy 38:46

I'm a little bit today. But slightly, I didn't have your notes up that was kind of closing my eyes a little earlier. You know,

Speaker 1 38:53

I didn't see it. If you're if you're not fucked up, but you're you're saying drugs you've been? You've been playing and practicing through all these years with taking drugs? Is it catching up with you? Or wipes?

Dizzy 39:07

It's, it has a tendency to end up doing a little bit of the fire in my belly. You know? What I'm trying to handle that? And, you know, for sure another reason why I gotta quit, you know, I got to quit that was

Speaker 1 39:19

gonna ask you is do you go through these cycles where you feel like it's, it's, it's kind of like getting the better of you. So you go through a effort to quit is that when I see you, because I've been through a few cycles with you and you've said, You're quitting. You've made the effort, and it's

Dizzy 39:35

taking up too much of my life and my money. You know, I mean, I can afford it, but I can't afford anything else. I think it's hard but I'm not excelling on guitar. It's it's stuck with me. You know, I know. And I've known for a while that drugs will take away from me everything that I love was because that's that's the job of main dishes to destroy me and kill me You know, that's what everybody's addiction wants. It's their life. And, you know, that's why they say it in a, in an age, cunning, baffling and powerful. We beg of you, they say, you know, be honest and thorough from the beginning

Rex Hohlbein 40:20

I asked is why there seems to be such a strong correlation between artists and drug use.

Dizzy 40:25

I think a lot of creative people come from a similar type of RF similar type of makeup. You know, they say suffering makes good art, you know? And then you make good art, you know, society says suffer more suffer more, please. illustrated by the Oscar Wilde poem, the rose in the nightingale, I want to

Rex Hohlbein 40:48

hear you talk a little bit about, like your own self reflection on why why why are you living in a in a? Why are you here now? Like, why are you in this container? Or why? Why did your life move to this point? What do you think the contributing factors are those first

Dizzy 41:05

the negative parts of it? Of course, it was drugs. You know, I mean, I can blame every everything on everything. You know, and there's just a little bit of truth to that. But eventually, you know, I'm a grown up after chip responsibility for what I've done, you know, I mean, we all have choices, and I've made some wrong choices. You know,

Rex Hohlbein 41:31

you think it's that it's that simple. It's just wrong choices. Like, do you remember those moments? Like, oh, fuck, I shouldn't have done that. I

Dizzy 41:38

shouldn't have some of them. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, I'm alive. You know, I know a lot of guys who've made it music that aren't alive because of it. I don't think I was really mature enough to strike fame and fortune. I really don't think I was mature enough, it probably may have saved my life, the fact that I, you know, was going to what many would consider a failure, at least business wise in music, probably saved my life. Now, then there's the issue quality of life. I think my life is pretty quality. I have a lot of successful friendships, you being one of them, you know, that are worth more than all the fame and fortune and nice cars and nice houses in the world. You know, you're not the only coach whenever a lot of people don't fall short. And that's how rewarding him hell of valuable.

Speaker 1 42:31

I see that in you. And I think it's beautiful. I feel like not only do you have a lot of friends, I feel like your friendships

Dizzy 42:39

are altered to be nicer now.

Speaker 1 42:43

I'm gonna start with a nice I'm going to end with, with the harsh, but it feels like your friendships are real. And that, like, there's something really beautiful. And

Dizzy 42:54

I try to I try to help my friends. Because when my friends helped me, you know, and, you know, like, one thing was a lot of my drug addict friends, you know, I noticed that a lot of them, I ended up getting a lot of them to call their parents for the first time in 10 years. You know, because, you know, the common thing that common thought process of a drug addict is, well, I'm fucking up, I'm putting my life in the trash. And I don't want to, I'm not going to call my parents and then say that, you know, they don't want to hear that. And I said that to my, my uncle once he's like, you know, how, you know you don't talk call your aunt for so long. You know, and I said the same thing to him. And he says, You don't have the right to make that choice. You know, nobody loves you more than that woman, you better call her. And so that's what I tell my friends. Actually, you don't have the right to make that choice. You call your parents, they'll tell you if they don't want to hear it. They'll hang up on you if they don't, you know, but more than likely, if it's been that many years and you got along with a decently to begin with. You probably should call them it's

Speaker 1 43:55

interesting that you went into the friendship conversation because I'm actually going to read what I wrote. I wrote I'd like to talk about friendship. Disney has some great friends that have been there for him over the years. What does that mean to him? What part does it play? While it's not helped him get off heroin? Perhaps it's helped him stay alive.

Dizzy 44:13

Oh, it's helped me get up a couple times before it you know that my friends are helpful. They're encouraging.

Unknown Speaker 44:17

Or most of your friends addicts?

Dizzy 44:19

Um, yeah, but not, not 90% of them. It's like 6040 or 5545. You know, it's pretty close to even I have friends fit, maybe smoke pot every day. Or maybe drink some beers every day but it's not wrecking their life. So I don't consider them an addict the way that I consider me an addict. I mean, it's not wrecking my life either. But it's it's the bill and I don't feel that I've made my potential. You know. I feel like I could do more and get late.

Rex Hohlbein 44:55

Yeah. Is that going to happen though? I don't know. For the friends like myself, you know, that have come to really appreciate who you are and just love the friendship over all these years. There's a part of me that always wants

Speaker 1 45:16

to see you exercise that potential. And because I care about you, what do you tell people? Like, like me? Like, do just, you know, I'm

Dizzy 45:26

sorry, please don't choke me. Because I'm sure sometimes my friends like you want to choke me? No,

Speaker 1 45:33

actually, not it. It's more that I just, I love you and I want I want to see it, like, go to the best place for you. And I don't know if that's a reasonable emotion or feeling like, maybe I should just be perfectly comfortable with it playing out how it is. Does that make sense? Because like, I

Dizzy 45:54

need to, I mean, it'd be different if I called you unhappy all the time or something are always meeting something. But

Unknown Speaker 46:00

what you never do? Well, I

Dizzy 46:02

have before I've called you before, and meeting a warm place to go when I was really, really homeless before, you know, like to get a hotel room from pitching homelessness or something. But

Speaker 1 46:12

I'm just going to interject and say on a scale of what I think your life is in need of you, you You rarely ever, you rarely ever asked. I mean, that's always been amazing to me is you'll be in a tent, it'll be the middle of winter, we'll have a really great chat. And you You don't seem to do that, which is always

Dizzy 46:34

sort of emotional. If you go, Hey, can I get 10 bucks?

Speaker 1 46:38

I think I think people anybody that's in a really hard spot. It's, you know,

Dizzy 46:43

maybe not you in particular, but French and I have they're like you, I don't want them to see me come in and go, Oh, shit, I don't have 10 bucks. And not talk to me or something, you know? You know, I don't want him to associate. Me was always wanting something or you know, because that's not why I'm your friend. That's not why we're friends. Yep, we're friends because I can kick your ass.

Speaker 1 47:09

I were friends, because I let you let you think you can kick my ass. That's why we're friends. Um, a lot of people have in their mind, like this stair stepping connection about what homelessness is about. And criminality is always seemingly attached to homelessness, but also drug drug use. And there are so many compassionate people out there. They meet somebody who is addicted. And they get to know this person, and then they're in this spot. What should that relationship look like for for compassionate people out in the world meeting someone that's homeless, that's addicted. Harm reduction will say, you know, are the person that meets someone that's homeless, it's addicted, their job isn't to try to get that person to go to treatment. Only the person that's addicted can go to treatment, right? No, I like

Dizzy 48:02

what they say in treatment in a carry the message is not the person. You know, people of all types are, there's ones that are really golden and beer, and there's ones that are absolute pieces of shit. And the problem is, is that they, they can all tend to look the same, you know, of course, you know, there is a reason why some video is homeless, and not always the same reason, but you don't know that person and do what you can to, you know, don't feel guilty about running a background check. Don't feel guilty about maybe spying on the homeless person that you're having a relationship with a little bit, you know, because you don't want to, you know, that them to end your life and then find out that that's just what they believe, because there are evil people in the world in all walks of life. You know, and you have to be careful with anybody. And especially somebody with very little to lose, you know, and I've certainly, I certainly, you know, I love our relationship, you know, you've had me to your home, you've had me over for dinner, you know, and I could probably come knock on your door more often than I do, which has never, but, you know, if I started coming over every day, that probably wouldn't be cool, you know, and some people will you know, I don't know what to say. I'm good, but not everybody's like me. And he will gooder to me. Just yeah, be compassionate, be giving don't give up don't carry the person. I have a friend right now who's just got a place and she some she dances for living when she can. And her she's right now is she doesn't have a license and she knows I have a little bit of money right now. But I told her, you know, you come up with half and I'll come up to that, you know, if a homeless person needs help from you, what are they willing to contribute to get this help to, you know, if they're gonna just sit around and take your money? Well, if you want to do that, that's okay. That's probably not really helping them out that much unless, I mean, even giving them a tenner sleeping bag can be like that. But for anything as far as him coming up, you know, if you just hand it to him, it's not going to be worth that much to him that they got to put in some effort. You know, I think, you know, I don't necessarily think that I'm better than any homeless people. But I do think that I'm shaper bin Salman, sometimes I can say it does make me feel better. But you always remind me that I don't know what they've been through. You know,

Speaker 1 50:26

I think it's a complicated thing. It is really complicated. Not only because the variabilities, and people that are homeless, but also the variabilities. And people that are harmed. Yeah, they come with their own agenda, their own abilities, the ones like

Dizzy 50:41

you, and then there's ones that you know, that something should happen to them with a homeless person. And they think every single homeless person is like that, or every single drug addict is like that, you know, I put a needle in my body every day that you could trust me with your kids or your grandma. I'd like to say that to the world. Even if your grandma dropped 1000 bucks, everything would be fine and safe and where it's supposed to be. Not everybody's like that. I'm not better than anybody. That's just how I am. But every bit, you know, some, a lot of people think that anybody who sticks a needle in their body is a certain way. And a lot of people that stick a mule in the body are that way, but not everybody.

Speaker 1 51:22

Yeah, I wonder if if the fact that someone puts a needle in their arm is a complete non indicator of who that person really is? Right? I mean, because there's a lot of people that live in homes that don't put needles in their arms. And they're pretty scary people. Yeah, right. So I almost feel like the needle in the arm is not really the

Dizzy 51:45

thing is, the thing is when when you get to the point where you're putting a needle in your arm, your whole life tends to be getting and using the ways and means to get in use more period. I mean, I know drug addicts who are completely inept in any kind of normal social situation. You know, I mean, they can barely order food at McDonald's without, you know, they can't do without saying fucking, you know, there's little kids and old people around and stuff, you know, and they can't carry on the conversation. That's not about drugs. I mean, there's people like, and that tends to go along with sticking a needle in your arm or holding a meth head to your face, it tends to go along with it. It's not an indicator of who somebody is. But it pulls when you get to that point of it. It's like a seed your whole life has been getting and using the ways that means to get in use more.

Speaker 1 52:33

And houses, how should society interact, interact with that person? Like, what does that look like? That person who's standing in line at McDonald's, and every fourth word is fuck, and, and they're all They're thinking is drugs and that moment for them? Like, what is the answer there? You know, pre

Dizzy 52:50

drugs, pre legal drugs. And, you know, I hate to say it, but if that causes them to take themselves out, well, maybe it should be better. But we shouldn't be breaking the law to get the drugs that we say we'll be beating people up or stealing from destroying them stealing property, you know, given the rope, whatever they do with it to their business. I don't know if that's cruel.

Speaker 1 53:15

You know, seems like if we did that, we would also need to have a bed waiting for any person that wanted to detox. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is not the case, which

Dizzy 53:24

is not the case. Yeah.

Speaker 1 53:26

Have you been into A into an organized treatment program before in your life?

Dizzy 53:31

I have been taught organized treatment via when I was on federal probation, they sent me to a very nice treatment center. But they'll still be drugs there. You know, there always is. You know, it's just how serious are you? You know, it doesn't take for a drug addict. It doesn't take you too long to see who's there. Getting High and who's not and you know, you sit down and meet with who you want to, you know, you can sit down and meet with Joe Cool, who's getting high and you're fucking gonna walk right into a gym. Or you can go sit with the nerds or the straight races that are actually working on it. I guess. I guess right now in King County. blue pills are pretty rapid. I guess there's a lot of drugs in King County. You mean every time I've gone between county jail isn't made even somebody who gets in with some drugs, you know? But I guess it's pretty rampant right now. So

Speaker 1 54:21

ever. The little fentanyl blue pills. Yeah, there are people are smoking. I'm telling you, every single person that I'm seeing outside is smoking those. At some point in our conversation. They pull out their little aluminum foil and they're and they're

Dizzy 54:38

burning it and hanging up smelling that are you that popcorn smell.

Unknown Speaker 54:43

It drifts past me. That's fentanyl.

Dizzy 54:45

And it's very potent. If you can smell it and move away Rex. Yeah, he's now that's getting in you. Please. Yeah, very powerful drug. Very powerful drug in I've seen a couple of blue pills. I had not smoked more than two in a row. Are you looking for, you know, I? They're all right. But I see that everybody who doesn't appreciate the heroin doesn't do it for me anymore. And they they're, they got to have that fentanyl. And then the next step is a straight fentanyl powder, which is a killer, which is a killer and it's even harder to detox. You know, it's like I'm not trying to make this worse. It's bad enough already dizzy,

Speaker 1 55:19

why are you? Why are you my dad was an alcoholic and he was what they termed a maintenance alcoholic, right? He just didn't get didn't get stupid drunk, falling on the floor, but he just kind of maintenance drank? Are you a maintenance heroin user? I am? And and how is it that you can do that in some binge and odd? Like, is there? Is that something about your makeup? Or how do you? How can you not be God before? No. Why are you not? Like you say like you've said, I've never seen you sloppy, completely whacked out? And is that do you have a an ability to say I'm not doing more than this? Or why? How come you can do that. And other people can't seem to do that.

Dizzy 56:06

Maybe the hole in my is not so big. They they're not hurting as much. Because as you'll see, when they get Blotto every time and move there. Sometimes they have to get there, you know, there's something's hurting them so bad that they have to get to the edge of death every day.

Rex Hohlbein 56:29

Getting to know and becoming friends with anyone, you begin to care about that person about their well being. When your friend is struggling, it pulls at you, you want to help. That's what friends do. Often in these moments, the problem isn't the wanting to help. It is in the how to help. That's the very moment it gets complicated. Always. giving help to anyone is a tricky thing. giving help to someone that is homeless, at times feels a bit like swimming out to someone you love that is drowning, it can be very emotional. There are plenty of reasons folks choose not to give help or to be in service to another. We live in a culture that is defined by the self made person, pull yourself up by your bootstraps is ingrained in each of us from very early on. And if too much help is given, there will be those saying you're enabling, preventing that person that friend from moving forward, a hand up is seen as being much better than a handout. Teach a person to fish rather than give a fish, then there are the unintended consequences of trying to do something good for someone in need, or promises get made that can't be kept getting someone a job that they are set up to fail out and then fired. Another layer of trauma introduced. Those ones especially hurt, you wanted to make a difference. And instead you made a mess. You didn't understand the depth of the issue, or issues at hand. The truth is helping is a tricky thing. And it's an infinitely worthwhile thing. It's a human journey thing. It's what connects us and binds us together. It has us feeling and acting on our highest and best cells. And the crazy thing is when we reach out to be of help to someone.

Speaker 1 58:25

Often it ends up that we are the ones that benefit the most. This is how I feel about my friendship with Dizzy.

Rex Hohlbein 58:33

The 10 things I listed about Dizzy earlier at the beginning of the episode are all true. But they don't even begin to tell you who Dizzy is only how he's seen how he presents to the world now as someone homeless to know who he is to know who anyone is and how to interact with them. We have to come closer and first listen. And in the listening we find where to take the next step.

Speaker 2 59:14

busy and I doubt standing side by side to the girl was a bad guy. You should have seen the tattoo over his eye. Rise and surprise. You should have seen the look on when

Speaker 1 59:36

you know me now is produced, written and edited by Tomas Biernacki. And me Rex Holbein. We would like to thank Michael Holmes or dizzy as he likes to be called by his friends for the opportunity to get to know Him. We also want to give a shout out to a Pacific Northwest punk rock legend Mike Mullen of neutral boy a band out of Bremerton in Washington who song you are hearing now?

Rex Hohlbein 1:00:04

It's a song about a time when dizzy and Mike would stop at the Salvation Army soup line in downtown Bremerton. Mike told us that to him. Dizzy is one of the most talented people he has ever met. And I agree with have a Facebook page where you can join the conversation and a website at WWW dot you know me now.com Where you can see photos of dizzy and listen to some vintage 1990s recordings from Zeke and shark chump as well as see an accompanying video we shot of dizzy playing some of his favorite tunes just for you. So, yeah, go ahead.

Dizzy 1:00:44

The first day of my life. I was born the second day of my life. They took me home. Let's see my sister the name Lisa and Michelle. Wait,

Speaker 1 1:00:59

Susie, I think you you you can be that far away. But I think you gotta at least be pointing to Michael. Thank you have to work for this.

Dizzy 1:01:06

Remember X nobody listens to this shit.

Speaker 1 1:01:11

Stay strong Rex. There's a reason that you're doing this. Okay, so you got to talk a little bit into this. All right.

Dizzy 1:01:17

Let me repeat my body put it back this way. Alright. Alright. Is that good? That's fine. Yeah, I think that's pretty good. I had attention enough. Yeah. Commandant.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:26

You're you're getting you're hitting the bars now, buddy.

Dizzy 1:01:30

Where's my point here is you could listen and I'm the friendship. The real treat for you. There's no shoe. Except I know nobody listens to this crap. I can't wait to prove you wrong. You heard that's on tape there. Threw me around. Wait till I proved me wrong right now. There is no marker. It's all a bunch of mice. There'll be looking at your watch you ain't going nowhere.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:55

I've never owned a watch that

Dizzy 1:01:56

you worse you're faking having a watch and you can get out of here.

Rex Hohlbein 1:02:02

So start from the start from when things actually when like when you were feeling your music taking.

Dizzy 1:02:08

I remember talking about this daunting thing right here. I was like keep listening to The Beatles in this podcast anyway. Nobody's gonna listen to this one. I care nobody listens to this crap. What do you what do you think you're at EA?

Rex Hohlbein 1:02:27

This is the same. This isn't the same vein when you accuse me of not being able to find the maple syrup this morning.

Dizzy 1:02:32

Is it? Yeah, well, well. Following a theme here you can't do anything right. And never have been able to look around