EPISODE TRANSCRIPT FOR EP18: Seeing the precious other
(AI / AUTO GENERATED)

Rex Hohlbein 0:01

This podcast contains potentially sensitive topics listener discretion is advised.

Sparrow 0:11

This was when I was 22. had gotten an internship at a homeless shelter in Chicago 40 Women stain in this particular shelter. What happened when I started to cleaning alongside them is, of course, inevitably they started to share with me. So, months, you know, I don't remember, you know what time I don't recall how many months it had been that I was cleaning alongside them, where I started to notice a pattern of a bus that would pull up in front of the shelter. All these people get out of the bus and they would come behind in the kitchen start making food and it was, you know, the crew that was volunteered from like a church out in the suburbs that would drive in a lot of times, I would see like people flirting with one another because it was like a singles group that would come and prepare the food and all these people are coming in, we're cleaning this, this building, I'm talking to all these women and one of them looked at me one day and they just said, Do you have any idea what it feels like? To see people being bussed in every day? To make food for you? I grew up in this city in this like square block radius my whole life? Never once have I been asked to be a part of something. Never once have I been asked to like offer myself to volunteer on behalf of my community. Do you have any idea what that feels like? And that was it for me. That changed that changed the trajectory of my life.

Rex Hohlbein 1:55

I'm Rex Holbein and welcome to you Nomi. Now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community. In these episodes, I want to remind all of our listeners that the folks who share here, do so with a great deal of vulnerability and courage. They share a common hope that by giving all of us a window into their world, they're opening an increased level of awareness, understanding, and perhaps most importantly, a connection within our own community. When responding to complex societal issues, we are all familiar with the shortcomings of treating symptoms rather than causes. Even so despite knowing this, we also all know how easy it is to go down that path. When an issue is screaming at us. Any issue, our knee jerk reaction is to just make it go away to make it stop. When the city of Seattle puts up chain link fencing to keep the homeless out from under freeways and bridges. It is addressing a symptom, the unsightliness of encampments, defenses are meant to make it go away. And we as a community passively allow it to happen, because in the moment, it feels better to not see what is unsightly, it is literally out of sight out of mind for us. However, for the homeless, they are still homeless, still looking for a place to sleep and shelter. So how do we shift our focus to successfully addressing root issues rather than symptoms? How do we get past giving in to the knee jerk responses? We begin by understanding that, for the most part, the symptoms of homelessness are what the house community feels and are impacted by and the root causes are what the unhoused community feels and are impacted by when we respond to symptoms. We need to know that we are responding to our own needs, rather than the needs of those struggling. It is an important distinction, an important and necessary shift. When we act compassionately, and intentionally With this knowledge, we open ourselves to the uncertainty to the uncomfortableness of homelessness and beautifully begin our own journey of addressing the root causes of others struggling. Today I have the sincere pleasure of talking with Sparrow etre Olson Sparrow has been living with intention towards her unhoused neighbors for the last 21 years. She is a co founder of the green bean coffee shop, co founder of Aurora Commons and it's she clinic, the acronym she's standing for safe, healthy and empowered. And the founder of sacred STS Sparrow is now the Seattle Planning Specialist at King County Regional homelessness authority I started my conversation with Sparrow by asking her to share a bit about her childhood. And with that, let's begin.

Sparrow 5:07

You know, the first thing that comes to mind for me Rex is that I had a different name at that point in my life. My birth name was Lisa, I changed my name to Sparrow when I turned 40. And as I sit here and check in with little Lisa, I was living in St. Louis, Missouri, and a part of St. Louis. That is called university city, right down the street from Washington University. Very diverse area. So my parents were curious, folks, so we always had people at our house. I was listening to adult conversations that were fueled with curiosity and kindness and an openness. Little Lisa would go outside play outside a lot put on plays. Overall pretty, pretty lovely. Lovely childhood.

Rex Hohlbein 6:03

Yeah, you felt sounds like you felt very loved. And I did I felt allowed to explore how you did

Sparrow 6:08

yeah, loved and seen, valued. I had the means to work out different identities by trying out different sports and you know, dance, etc. So I feel I feel Yeah, really grateful that I and I don't take that lightly, you know, that I had a safe place of expression and, and care. But literally set five definitely felt safe and secure. Of course, like like most children, you know, I had a loss of innocence at some point in my life. But that was certainly not a five to that. We'll get to that. Yeah, that was not a five five was, was a sweet and tender, tender time in my life.

Rex Hohlbein 6:54

A lot of the times when I get to talk to people, people have had traumatic childhoods. And I'm, I'm always curious to know, like, how you lived as growing up? How did it inform now and so it's easy to connect the dots like to say, Wow, Lisa had this unbelievably beautiful childhood. And it's a direct link to, you know, like this wonderful, beautiful humanitarian work that you do now. And is that a is that a fair? And I don't want to, I want to be careful. Stop me if I'm jumping too far ahead. But no.

Sparrow 7:29

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, of course, through the years, Rex, I'm sure you get this as well, like, living into this world, the way that I've lived, chosen to live into this world, right through like, burning a number of different nonprofits that have been alongside my unhoused neighbors. That's always been a question of like, why? It's really hard for me to answer that question. I mean, tears always come because it's, it's, it's something I can't, I can't totally answer other than, like, my shared humanity, like the ways that I have felt seen, like seen the lived out experience of being alongside my unhoused neighbors, the realness of which they have to approach this life, the shared need, the way that they care for one another, the fabric of care, I've, I feel more myself, when I'm with human beings that don't have the privilege of hiding their ship behind four walls, the ways that I was taught about, about faith and religion never matched up to what was within my soul. And so like, if you were to ask my sister about our childhood, she would say, very different experience than I than I had of my childhood because I've just I've always been a mystic. I've never taken what's been told to me and and had it I don't process information in the same way that many people process it

Rex Hohlbein 9:02

out the same way when yeah, like I came in and you and I

Sparrow 9:06

turned it around and I I can't even put words to that right because that's just the way that I've been wired.

Rex Hohlbein 9:12

Was it was it just you growing and moving one step forward into your own mystic kind of spiritual connection with the world or were you even yet that connected to it?

Sparrow 9:23

Yeah, I mean, I think I think I, I was really connected to it, but in a way and in a sense that, that just, I mean, we all feel lonely, right? Like, we all have a sense of being alone. But I think I'd ever felt like alone. I just felt lonely. Like, I didn't feel like I had, I didn't feel like there was any constructs of which I could be like, understood.

Rex Hohlbein 9:54

We can we always relate to these moments. I think at least I do. Like, like, Okay, I listen to You just said and then internalizing it comparing to my journey, right? Like, I feel like your words are similar in a sense that I don't. I wish I could say I was a mystic. I wish I could say those beautiful things like that. But do I do resonate with the feeling of like, I feel connected growing up, but I also felt like, it somehow seemed like a lie. Like, it didn't seem quite right. Like something like something was happening was wrong. And, you know, I think now I can put words to it much more easily. But going through it, I, you know, I was just kind of a happy kid growing up, right. And it was kind of, you know, I'm sensitive. I can cry easily. I can grew up with four sisters, no brothers got all these, you know, more, maybe. But the point is, yeah, I can relate to that to the feeling of not being disconnected, but alone. Within a lot of people actually.

Sparrow 10:58

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I share this story. And I have shared the story. With many people. It's such a privilege to share the story, because I think we all have these good teachers, right. Like, there's a reason why Rex is here, doing this podcast, there's a reason why I'm here as Sparrow. We've had good teachers that have been kind enough to be patient with us and share their stories. This is a story from my life where I happen to have like, kind of my my first initial good teachers in this work. This was when I was 22.1, or 22. I had gotten an internship right out of undergrad at a homeless shelter in Chicago, through an organization called Breakthrough Urban Ministries really, really beautiful. My My internship was working with youth that at that point, there was still the project. So this before the projects were were, were shut down, and really enjoyed that when my internship was up, I wanted to stay on. And I asked at this particular women's shelter, you know, if there were any particular jobs that were available, because I wanted to stay and work for the organization, there were no jobs available except for the janitor position. And so I decided to stay and well, I was lucky enough that they gave me the janitor position because I didn't know anything about cleaning. So you can imagine this is 40 women staying in this particular shelter. And so nine toilets, lot happening during the day in this particular congregate shelter, and 2120 22 year old girl that I was, was now in charge of the facilities. Like I had gone from being like a quote unquote, case manager or someone that was in kind of an over and above relationship with youth that were coming to the shelter, the shelter during the day was a drop in. But I was also there during the day and didn't get to encounter the women very much. Or when I tried to, I just couldn't build much relationship a report. What would happen when I started to clean alongside them is of course, inevitably, they started to share with me. So, months, you know, I don't remember, you know what time I don't recall how many months it had been that I was cleaning alongside them. Where I started to notice a pattern of a bus that would pull up in front of the shelter. All these people get out of the bus and they would come behind in the kitchen start making food it was you know, the crew that was volunteered from like a church out in the suburbs that would drive in a lot of times I would see like people flirting with one another because it was like a singles group that would come and prepare the food and I I just noticed kind of like how these people are coming in. We're cleaning this, this building, I'm talking to all these women and one of them looked at me one day and they just said, to have any idea what it feels like to see people being bussed in every day to make food for you. I grew up in this city in this like square block radius my whole life. Never once have I been asked to be a part of something. Never once have I been asked to like offer myself to volunteer on behalf of my community. Do you have any idea what that feels like? Yeah. And that was it for me. That changed that changed the trajectory of my life.

Rex Hohlbein 14:40

Yeah, because you saw the the separation. I saw

Sparrow 14:43

like, again, like they are my good teachers like I am so grateful to those women for sharing that because the rest of my life has been truly a direct response to that moment in time.

Rex Hohlbein 14:56

It's beautiful. Honestly, I don't think People see that, right? Like, in kind of any way, like, it's very hard to always also be on the receiving end like never like just to have people come and give and not have something to give back. Or to be included on that end of it. That's

Sparrow 15:16

to never be told that you're needed in this world for this world. Yeah, I think is one of the greatest poverty of all.

Rex Hohlbein 15:25

I think it's central to some of the kind of stepping stones for people to get involved, like, what are those little first feelings? Like? How do I how do I like Get off of my path to help someone that's struggling with theirs? Like, what does that look like? How do I wake up one day and decide to do that? We all need those little moments or those little kind of pearls of wisdom like that?

Sparrow 15:47

Yeah. Yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 15:49

So you kept working there.

Sparrow 15:50

I did. I worked there. Um, and I would have stayed there. A lot longer. But my, my, at that point in my life, my parents were living back in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I got a call that my dad was sick and dying. So I left Chicago and move back to be with my, my dad is he was passing away. Yeah. So I was able to spend the next was about 11 months, caring for my father and saying the long goodbye. Yeah, so sorry. Thank you. Yeah, I am, too.

Rex Hohlbein 16:34

Did you know yet what you want to be doing in life at that point? Was that a was that 11 month also a reflection time for you?

Sparrow 16:41

Totally was? Yeah, that was a real time of, you know, again, being 22. And so many of my friends were out, living their life. And mine was really different at that point, right. Like, I was very much attuned and aware, again, of like, the fleetingness of this life, you know, the power of a moment, things really become clearer when you're having to say goodbye to someone you love it. You know, I'm certainly not wasn't like so, so young. But I was pretty I was, I was pretty young, you know, and I was able to be really attuned in that season. And I think so much of that is because I had just come from working in a women's shelter, where the women again, were kind enough to share their struggle with me, and their story, and then to go back and be alongside my dad as he was dying. I was in a thin place, right? It was a thin place for me, I was wrong. And I was able to, in in those moments, take what my good teachers at the shelter had, had shown me and reflect on my time working at the shelter. And it was during that time that I really did get a vision for a nonprofit coffee shop. It was at that time that I had a connection here with a local church that wanted to do church a little bit differently. And I had shared with them this vision I had for a nonprofit coffee shop. And they really loved it. Tell us the name, the green bean coffee house.

Rex Hohlbein 18:34

So the first obvious question is like, why a non profit? coffeehouse what tell us what's different about Yeah, like, why isn't just a for profit coffee spot?

Sparrow 18:45

You know, for me, my line of thinking was, there are no third places, right? Like churches are not that place for folks like coffee shops aren't totally that place for folks, because they're not always welcoming to folks that are that are sleeping rough that are that are enhanced. But they could be. Yep. And I think the other part of it was that I wanted to give individuals away too, to be a part of something. So we had our local our tip jar, supported local and global nonprofits. So anyone who walked in, we had a we had a nonprofit board, like a nonprofit of the month, they could come in and they could learn about different nonprofits that were local and global. Right. And anyone could come in. So Joel, who I knew who slept outside, or Robert, who slept on our back porch, they could come in, and they could give a penny five cents, they could learn about something, a narrative that was greater than themselves. And also they could help clean the space. They could be a part of the space and they could stay in the space and it was an all inclusive space. So we didn't we didn't make chairs that were uncomfortable. You know, we didn't we didn't have have, like a certain number that we needed to reach on a day to day basis. We wanted folks to come and feel a part of something. And that was the green beam.

Rex Hohlbein 20:10

And were you working there every day? Oh, yes. Probably Probably more.

Sparrow 20:13

Oh my goodness. fracks. Yes. Yes, it was. It was such a beautiful, beautiful season of life. It was beautiful, hard season of life. But, you know, we we had many programs that were birthed out of the green bean again, accessible to all people. Yeah, people really cared for one another. It was a beautiful fabric of care that happened within those four walls.

Rex Hohlbein 20:39

I imagined, but I want to hear you talk about it. Yeah, the house community and the unhoused community, right. Like, that's where I think that's where the special sauce is. That is where the special sauce or all the mixing happens. And we're all learning and the growth for both right? Both communities 100%? Or did you see that taking place? Yeah. And the Green Deal,

Sparrow 20:58

and that's why it was created? Yeah, that was totally why it was created, was to try to figure out a leveled out space, where folks from all walks of life could come and live as though we belong to one another. And that takes a lot of, of artistry to create a space like that. And 10 do a space like that, and

Rex Hohlbein 21:21

courage, of course, yeah. So tell me about these early thoughts for the Royal Commons. And I gotta say, the Royal commons, I think started about the same time I started facing homelessness. And so about a year or so later, I started hearing cross pollinating things. Like I hear about Oracle. It's like, whoa, right. Like, it felt like we were kindred separated at birth. Yeah, absolutely felt like it was the same kind of feelings were being put out into the world. And so yeah, I've always held this really beautiful place in my heart for are our comments and the work that you guys did do and are still doing there. Oh, yeah. But tell me like the early birthing of the commons.

Sparrow 22:06

I mean, I wish that, you know, a whole chorus of people could be here, right. Like you're getting one note. In the chorus from me, there are so many people that were a part of birthing the Aurora Commons. And that's what makes it so beautiful, right? Yeah, like it was. It was birthed in community and it was birthed out of a desire to share life. With our neighbors that are experiencing homelessness

Rex Hohlbein 22:33

in Aurora is a tough spot. Yeah, yeah. I mean, let me back up. All cities are tough spots for the homeless, right? Yeah. But Aurora is always a particularly difficult spot. Did you choose that spot, particularly, for a reason? Was there?

Sparrow 22:50

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's where we were all living as a community. So as I mentioned, the green beam was in Greenwood, which Greenwood you know is right next to Aurora Avenue North Aurora. The Aurora Commons physical space is at 90 F and Aurora. The green beam was at 86, then Greenwood, so all of us that helped to create the Aurora Commons all lived within like a block or two radius of Aurora Avenue, and had for 15 plus years. At that point, I see. The Aurora comments started, you know, many years before, we had a brick and mortar building. So the original start to the Aurora Commons and kind of the movement of the loving community of awake church, started spending their time with intention at the motels on Aurora.

Rex Hohlbein 23:43

And was that just like hanging out in the lobby or going into rooms and saying, Hey, and sitting down to chat or a

Sparrow 23:49

little bit of both, but what's really beautiful Rex is that my beloved sister, Karen, who's one of the co founders of the aurora commons, she started back in 2008 2009. Simply taking bouquets of flowers to the motel managers on Aurora Avenue between 85th and 100. Yep. So she just started by bringing flowers. Saying hi, with the deep acknowledgement that we know that those people that were running the motels, all that was happening in the motels like, those were precious people that were very isolated. They were in and out of homelessness, right. So just being present, bringing beauty I know you of all people know how important beauty is. And the lack of beauty that our friends who have to sleep outside have they don't have much access to beauty so to lead with beauty was always at the forefront of I don't want to call it a movement because it's not shouldn't be a movement. I look forward to the day where it's no longer called a movement or radical hospitality, but just simply loving your neighbor I I'm so Karen started by bringing flowers. Then we started doing barbecues that we would host in the parking lots of the hotels. Folks from all walks of life would come together and share meals. And then my husband and I had moved directly behind what is now the brick and mortar or Commons on 90 ethanol run. So it was right next to what is the oak tree motel? Yep. On Nesbitt Avenue. Okay, so Aurora Commons is here on Aurora. Yep. big parking lot. Yeah, with a little house. Little House in the back. Yep. My husband and I lived there. Oh, wow. And so there's two houses, one house in the back. There's one right next to it. And then there's oak tree Martell. Okay, Jade Chinese restaurant are our comments. We were not a war Commons yet. We had a little house here. And that house was a four Plex happened to have a yard. So rare, right to have a green space, like a green like a yard. We set all let's do a garden. Let's do a neighborhood garden. So myself and Karen and Ben and all the founders of Aurora Commons and our beloved community that we're gathering and trying to be church together. We started doing neighborhood garden in our backyard. So then next thing, you know, of course, right? We have a whole community of folks digging their hands in the dirt, creating the space. And then we started doing neighborhood barbecues. So we went from doing them in the parking lot to in my backyard. I'm not kidding, we would have 50 to 100 individuals in our backyard. Every Wednesday, for two summers, we did that.

Rex Hohlbein 26:38

That's beautiful. And it was

Sparrow 26:40

the most beautiful thing. And again, I look forward to the day where I don't have people come in to the backyard or people coming and saying this is radical hospitality. It's not. I don't It's not

Rex Hohlbein 26:53

like my my brain went when you were finishing up that little portion of the story, my brain said, can you imagine if that was happening around the whole city, right? Right. Like if that's, ya know, what we were all just making normal. Yeah,

Sparrow 27:05

it's just a little lift out expression of I mean, just this fabric of love, like how better we are to be together in that and create together and so that what happened is every year it would start to rain in the fall. And we would miss being with one another. So we started our first Aurora Commons program in my house. It was a women's breakfast. And so my neighbors that slipped out in their RVs and out in their tents because we had a lot of people sleeping on Nesbitt at that time. They would come over and we would create and make breakfast together sharing a meal together. That was our first women's breakfast. And then we saw the Iraq that building Yep, come up release. We saw what if we took what we've been doing. And put four walls around it. And did it all the time? Yeah. So

Rex Hohlbein 28:02

So awake, moved into the building as well. So you kind of were doing two things you were beginnings of Aurora Commons. right alongside awake. That's right. And probably cross. Yeah. awake during awake

Sparrow 28:15

birth. All of this. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It we like to say it was awake was kind of the goose that hatch the egg of Aurora Commons and the egg got way too big. The goose had to get off, you know. Funny, but we totally renovated the whole space. Yeah. Rex, all by ourselves with our own hands in community.

Rex Hohlbein 28:38

Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's, I can see pulling any person pulling the energy from that your entire lifelong having that experience, honestly,

Sparrow 28:49

to tie it back to my good teachers from from the women's shelter in Chicago. When we started the Aurora comments when we designed the space and made it the only thing we knew the only thing we started off with was having a shared kitchen. So we wanted the kitchen to be accessible to everyone. So we would stock the kitchen with food, but people will come in mid get to open the fridge and they get to make their own food.

Rex Hohlbein 29:14

People on the street. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sparrow 29:17

That was the only thing we started with Rex. We had no programs. We had nothing. Yep. Just the neighborhood living room. Yeah, we're focusing come in. And they get to choose what they want to create with their own hands, ya know, us serving them. You walk in, you don't know who's working, who's not working. And that's not a simple thing, right? It's like being a parent. Your kids shouldn't know how hard you work. They shouldn't know how hard you work to make their life. Beautiful flourishing.

Rex Hohlbein 29:50

That's a really profoundly beautiful beginnings. I think about the early phases of facing homelessness in my architecture office. So what isn't facing homelessness yet, right. But one of the most beautiful things is that happened is that people were coming into my architecture office to use the bathroom, get coffee, peanut butter, whatever right or sit and just read in the in the lobby there. And they weren't coming into a social service place. They were coming into an architect's office. And that little tiny distinction to the people coming in, they can walk in standing up straight. They weren't they weren't coming in broken, right? Like, oh, I'm broken, and I need your help. They were just coming in to mix and be Yeah. And that wasn't designed. I wish I could say, oh, that was some brainchild idea. It wasn't until later that I realized, yeah, oh, wow, that is what's working here. And, and this is where I was musing about, like, all these beautiful beginnings. For all the things that people turn into nonprofits is, then they have been they grow. And it's and they have to because

Sparrow 30:59

they're thinking about that they

Rex Hohlbein 31:00

have to because they want to do more of the beautiful that they're doing. Yeah. And with it, they need structure. They need guidelines and rules. And slowly it starts becoming something that's not as approachable. And it's not a criticism on any of the nonprofits. Certainly, it's not a criticism of facing homelessness and how it's grown. Yeah, but it's just a reality or

Sparrow 31:24

comments. Yeah, but same.

Rex Hohlbein 31:26

Yeah. It's why it needs to keep being reborn and reborn, because that's right. For me, at least, Yeah, beautiful. The really human beautiful moments are when a stranger does something kind and loving for another stranger. And it just becomes this little beautiful thing. And other people join, and they want to also be part of it. And before it gets legs, I guess I don't know,

Sparrow 31:51

there's a sense where, like, I picture a breath that needs to be nourished across all of our social services at this particular point in time. They're very malnourished of soul. And again, understandably so. Yeah. People are there ever since COVID. There's, and prior to that even, no one has a margin. Yeah, to be imaginative, to be creative. And they deserve it. They deserve that from us. Yeah,

Rex Hohlbein 32:20

they do. One of the things that shocked me when I started early on, I got calls from case managers that said, you're getting too close to the people you're serving. I said, like, that's the whole point. Yeah. And they said, That's, you're you're setting yourself up for disappointing and hurting people that are vulnerable. And I crossed it went against my, my kind of inner feelings about like, what was missing is that we actually need to get closer, we need instead of pushing away, we need to get closer. And I don't even begin to think I have the answers on how that works when it scales. But I just know person to person. Yeah, it it's there's too much separation and people feel that that are extremely vulnerable and extremely hurting. They need a hug, they need someone to listening to someone to be really close to them.

Sparrow 33:12

No, absolutely. And we are the spaces where they have the lift out. They have the privilege of the lived experience of being in relationship of of naming themselves. I mean, I think one of the main things I think about a lot Rex's is and I thought about thought about this, a lot of the comments, I was a big part of why we set it up in the way that we did with the neighborhood living room feel the kitchen, the shared kitchen, was that when you go to social services, quite often, they have a list of ways that they want you to name yourself. We are the places where they can they can come up with their own name. You know what I mean? Like rather than checking a box of like, oh, I slept here last night, or I'm this or I'm that? Yeah. Like, where can they go? Where they can live out a new name, a new possibility. It's so important. Yeah, to create those spaces where they don't have to come in and say they're one thing or another. Yeah, they can just be they can just be. That's a lot of work on our part, though. Yeah, it takes more work to create a space like that than to create a space that is full of a bunch of rules. And again, I'm with you, I'm not supposed to check and boxes to check. Now, there's nothing easy about that. And you're right. It's not super scalable. But there can also be people in this world that are committed to a way of seeing a way of restoring that I think we need to put we need to put more belief more weight behind these kinds of social movements that are kind of a special assist. to our social services. Yeah. You know what I mean? I do. I mean,

Rex Hohlbein 35:04

I, often I will I, when I get into these types of conversations, which I'm grateful for, is that I get to a point where I, you know, we're working in this arena. And we're, and you know, we're up against this, and these people will be here doing that. And there comes a point where I almost, I almost want to say, no matter how hard are you going to push or try to change within this arena? It just keeps going around and around. And it's almost like we need to go to another arena. And by that, I mean, you know, I look at all of the services that are being provided. It's not like, there isn't effort going on. There's a lot of effort. But I feel like what's, what's missing in a big part is community where it's kind of a cultural thing, right? Like we all take part in there are a commons living room, like, physically where we're Commons is that we all have that space. And I think at that point, it changes overnight. Right? Yeah, it's a cultural shift. And I that just that cultural shift is huge. It is an almost feels like it needs to be another arena. Like I look at what we the way we do things. Now think, wow, how do we get there from where we are imagining it in this? This box? It's like, I want to go over here. And I don't know what. I don't know what that means. Other than maybe it's maybe it's maybe it's an awareness. So wow, how much of a task it is. Because I don't believe we're going to get there unless we all kind of see each other in the way that you're talking.

Sparrow 36:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think of a couple things when you say that is Joanna Macy, who has done a lot of work and in translating Renea Marie overlook has poetry. She calls a deep time work. I think about that a lot. Who are the people out here that are Tom just in Seattle, we'll just say Seattle, that are telling a new story? Who was pointing us in the direction of a new North Star? Yeah, we don't. We don't. What is that? What is the new story?

Rex Hohlbein 37:10

What Yeah, and I think that's extremely direction because we don't really know what the story right, exactly.

Sparrow 37:15

No, exactly. And so I think that's why it's so important. The work that you're doing Rex and the work that I hope that sacred streets can be a part of, is it's building a bridge across otherness? How can we turn and face one another? Yeah. It's no simple task to tell a new story. But a new story is exactly what needs to be told.

Rex Hohlbein 37:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Sparrow 37:36

That's exactly what needs to be told.

Rex Hohlbein 37:39

Do you think we all feel that you think we're just to tell that story do you think we're all are we all lined up waiting for that? It's just that a lot of folks don't know how to take that first step. But are we are we primed for it? You know how like when an idea bursts? Everybody goes, Oh my God, that's it right there. Do you think we're ready for it? Miss? No, yeah, stick for it.

Sparrow 38:01

I know. I know it. Yeah, I do. I do. I think the time is now I really do. I feel that in my bones. I'm closing my eyes listeners. I'm closing my eyes. I feel it deep in my bones. But But it's so particular, right? Like, like it it first of all, the fact is, there's a very, like, lived out decompensation of precious people that's happening within our city right now. And that lived out decompensation of our own house neighbors. It's it's a reflection of, of our inability on so many levels as an entire society to have nuanced conversations.

Rex Hohlbein 38:44

Yeah, it's just true. Yeah. We, it's so refreshing when you find those conversations. They're so rare,

Sparrow 38:52

like what we need is a group of people again, committed to the belief that people can change both in thought and theory. Like I like people need to believe that they can have conversations with people that are different than them. Where we can create something together we can change and we can be open to change. I love that there's not a lot of humans that I come across in this very like for speaking so much against being a binary society. I've never experienced more of a binary society. The ins and outs the Republican the Democrat, the liberal, the not liberal this or that like like, Where are the people that are building a bridge. We need more build like bridge builders racks, like I truly believed that with my whole heart and the people that are suffering the most are the folks that we're seeing the folks that are sleeping outside

Rex Hohlbein 40:00

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're suffering emotionally and physically. But I would I would say to people living inside suffer from what you're taught 100%.

Sparrow 40:08

You

Rex Hohlbein 40:10

know, yeah, the loneliness you were talking about earlier.

Sparrow 40:12

Right? Yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 40:13

Yeah, tell me about sacred streets.

Sparrow 40:16

Secret streets is a commitment to building a bridge across otherness. And that is a commitment to like stories, storytelling in a way that I think. I like to call it like the phenomenology of the other. So kind of taking the experiences alongside folks that I've known for 20 years, that have been sleeping, that have had to sleep outside that are continuing to sleep outside, it's, it's, it's me sharing their story in a way that doesn't deduce it to reason, but really is outside of reason. So I want folks to think the

Rex Hohlbein 40:57

reason I'm guessing you mean is just a resides in emotion?

Sparrow 41:00

Yeah, yeah, that's my hope, at least. Yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 41:04

And how are you? How are you wanting to tell these stories?

Sparrow 41:07

I mean, I think it goes back to, like, just the way that I was created at birth. And that's just being a mystic, like, just mystical encounters with the other. So I think, you know, for me, like so much of my life, alongside my neighbors who are experiencing homelessness has been lived out in in a very particular ecosystem. And that's on Aurora Avenue. And so to highlight that particular place, the particular precious people, by sharing their stories, is one good medicine for me, I have to get the stories out of my body. Yeah, they're seeping out of me. I have to memorialize the folks that I've lost, which is far too many. I have to make meaning out of their lives. And I hope that the ways that I steward their stories, honors them, and awakens the reader and the people to their own need.

Rex Hohlbein 42:33

It resonates with me that often, when we hear these stories, or however they shape, whether they're written or their photos or their videos, they end up opening something within yourself that actually is very telling to what you need in your own life. This has never sounded quite right. But I've, I've had, I haven't found the right words to put it into, but I've felt like the homeless stories that you hear our gifts to the house to actually self examine. Oh, absolutely. You know, in lots of ways, like, if you turn away from it, then you can ask yourself, Okay, why am I turning away? What's what's within me? That is has me turning away from the story? Or if I come closer to it, what is it in me? And it's, it's an invitation to self exam? Yeah, in both of those, you know, experiences coming closer or moving away? Yeah. How are you doing this, though? How are you? Are you doing it in writing? Are you doing it in?

Sparrow 43:35

Yeah, in writing? Yeah. So I'm writing a lot. And when I'm able to I'm, I'm sharing that with with folks that want to read it. Real changes. I've been grateful for them. And I feel the most honored when they share my stories. Yeah, so they've been able to share a number of my my articles and I'll continue to share in that way. But, you know, secret streets also has been in community with mental health chaplaincy? And the hope is to continue to work with faith communities, in equipping them with this companionship training. Because we know, I know, you know, and I know many people who are listening who are committed to this work this good hard work know that, that soul carers are really, really crucial part of this work. We really want to create a big pool of individuals that are trained in accompaniment that are trained in soul care, that can start partnering with these social services to go in and care for the beloved humans that are living, you know, at the tiny house villages at our permanent supportive housing and also care for the staff that are hurting and burnt out and not equipped. Well, I think, you know, one thing I'm really aware of Rex, and you may not be aware of other people may not be aware of is that just even in this last year, there's been a 30% increase in overdose fatalities, within our permanent supportive housing units. Folks are getting indoors, we've seen this a long time, they're closing their doors, and they're dying. Because they're lonely, they're isolated, they have no sense of community. We need to create a whole community of people that are committed to being in relationship with our precious friends that are both sleeping outside and also transitioning into homes, which can often be isolating the most isolating experience of all because they don't have that lived out community on the street that lived out meaning making for better or worse, where everybody has a job. Everybody has a hustle. Yeah. So we as a community need to come around and for way lack of a better word adopt these organizations. And so that's something that we're working with mental health chaplaincy on is, is doing these trainings to equip house neighbors to come alongside our unhoused neighbors on the street. And in that crucial time of transition, where all of a sudden, again, they have that door? Yeah, yeah, they've left and they don't have anyone knocking on Yeah,

Rex Hohlbein 46:23

I'll be difficult and often dysfunctional community. Yep. They still had a community. That's

Sparrow 46:27

exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Rex Hohlbein 46:30

Now they're off. Now. They're, they've moved five miles away into a building on the fourth floor. Yep. And they're separated. Yep.

Sparrow 46:37

Yep. So sacred streets is. That's one of our main, our main, our goals. And then and then the other is a deep commitment to social artistry. Okay, I wish I had my notes in front of me, I'm sorry, Jean Houston. Not that she's really going to hear this. But she created the field of social artistry. And it's essentially that you approach social dilemmas, as an artist with it's, it's quite simple, really. But I'm, with the precision of an artist. Yeah. With with the creativity of an artist, the openness, the openness of an artist. Yeah. And that's been really helpful for me, in every conversation. And every attempt that we have to like, quote, unquote, solve homelessness, or come up with with particular models of care, it's to come at it with through the lens of an artist, and to be committed to that. In every conversation I have, along with individuals that are trying to come up with their own models of care, how do we care for the precious other who's sleeping rough, you know, to bring to help to help them reimagine to help them be imaginative, not just stick with, you know, a transactional model of care. But to really do professional professionalize.

Rex Hohlbein 48:02

Yeah, D professionalized? Absolutely. There was something that we used to say at facing homelessness was that you didn't have to know the answer to begin. And I think that is a very artist. Point of View. Oh, really? Yeah. Actually rely on the creative design process? Absolutely. Like I'm going to start collect information. And we're going to discover the solution.

Sparrow 48:23

Yeah, we go. Yeah, that's a co creation. Yeah.

Rex Hohlbein 48:27

You talk a little bit about soul care. Like, what are some foundational cornerstones of soul care, like, just that you could peel off the top of your head? What does that look like? Yeah, just Sparrow,

Sparrow 48:39

I think soul care is is it is a deep, deep reverence for the other, approaching the other as a mystery, as not something to be to be solved. Not something to be solved, but something to be like someone to be in awe of. I think that, you know, even though I'm talking about it now, with my eyes closed, like there's a, there's a sense where it's like, it's the hand on the heart, right. Like it's, it's asking and being like, attentive to kind of the unmeasurable of the precious human in front of you. So it's a commitment to the beauty. The encounter,

Rex Hohlbein 49:26

I think of when you were talking earlier, when we first started about, you know, feeling that we all feel lonely and that you were, it wasn't quite fitting for you as you were growing up, you were loved, you are surrounded by people. I feel like I'm always looking for that connection. You also said this earlier, which really resonated with me is that I can't remember your exact words, but it was about unhidden beauty or openness that people on the street seem to have like, there's an authenticity there that that is. And this is nothing negative against people living inside. But there is something very genuinely beautifully authentic and people outside that, for whatever reason, opens me more. That's right. And I think your discussion about soul care. Yeah, that's a very good thing for everybody I reflect on. Like, where, like, am I taking part in that journey?

Sparrow 50:28

Yeah. And I think there's also something there's a sense that feels really honoring to me, Rex, because I think for me, when I when I think about when I think about soul care, when I think about being a soulful human, when I think about, you know, animating soul being present to the precious other who's experiencing homelessness. There's a sense where I feel like I have to risk more. And they're worthy of my risk. Do you know, I guess the way the way that I want to say it is like, I think they're like, We have such a we've been trained, right? We've been trained how to volunteer. We've been trained that there's certain things that we have to do, right, or we sign up to volunteer and we have a job when we go volunteer. There's something very wilderness Lee and wild about soul care. There's no book that you can pick up. Yeah, you're truly just in the face of the other. Yeah. And there's a sense where you require something of me where I can make a fool of myself. Yeah. And they're worthy of that hurt. I can get hurt because they can tell me Don't touch me. Yeah. Or don't aren't No, bitch. I didn't mean that, like, fair. Like, there's something like, and then I've got to deal with it. And I've got to deal with that. And I've got it. Like, there's some there's something in that that feels so honoring.

Rex Hohlbein 51:45

God, thank you for putting that into words. For me. I feel exactly the same way. I've wondered a lot about, you know, we started this just say hello, campaign. Right. And I wondered, why is that so difficult for a lot of people? And I think it's because most of the back and forth that we have in society are fairly scripted. Hey, how's it going? How was the weekend about those mariners? You know, there are all these little bits and pieces that you can meet somebody in the elevator or walking up the steps or whatever. And they're pretty prescribed exchanges, and nothing in those exchanges are going to challenge you. But if you sail to somebody that's struggling, now the guardrails are off. That's right, anything can come back. And you got to now actually, kind of look inside and say, How do I feel about that? Not just in my head. It's like, I gotta really, I gotta actually check in on this. That's right. And that's, I think that's a more difficult and more rewarding. I agree journey.

Sparrow 52:48

Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that, you know, one of the things that I feel, really, it's always, again, hard to talk about, but I feel really proud of us at Aurora Commons and continue to feel proud of how this has been lived out at the Aurora comments. Without me there even is that we show up? Like we respond. Yeah. Like I think we've we're trained to like I mean, harkening back to kind of what you said earlier, like, case managers or other people tell us not to get too close. There's something so honoring, when you weep and wail when someone relapses? I'm not okay with that. I'm not okay with that. Because I know you. I know you. I've known you for five years. I love you. And I love you.

Rex Hohlbein 53:37

Yeah. Okay. You are, you're a unique person, I'm going to just say it and I know I'm not the first person to tell you that like just the way that you care from your heart and the way that you want to lean into and see the issue of people struggling on the streets. That's, that's beautiful and unique and have a gift, let's just say for it. But that's not everybody. Right? But I also wonder about the people listening to this who kind of don't bring that mindset? And what are those? What are those starter kit? entry points for people to you know, begin that journey of their their soul artistry or their soul carrying? Do you have any insights into that? And I know you're a teacher as well, like this is part right. This is part of your sacred STS is is he's helping educate people how to step forward.

Sparrow 54:41

So much of the work is work that we just we need to do together as a community. I think that I often say that we wouldn't have so many folks. So many precious folks that are sleeping outside. If we were And each other's business more in our neighborhoods. So get closer get closer to your neighbor. Yeah. And I don't mean your own house neighbor. I mean, we don't even notice. Like, we don't even know our neighbors. Like if we were in each other's business, we would know when a kid your kid is not safe at home. We would know when someone's hurting. Those people that often end up outside. We got to get in each other's business more.

Rex Hohlbein 55:30

The question remains, how do you do that? Like, what what is missing in our culture that is keeping us from doing that? Why are we not doing that? What are we so afraid of? What

Sparrow 55:40

Yeah, I think in large part, honestly, like it's our white heteronormative culture, we don't have a shared communal story. And if you look at just even like the invention of harm reduction movement, that came out of black communities, during the crack epidemic, they care for one another, there's a communal need for one another. We don't have a shared need for one another. So I think we're just fragmented. We're fragmented, we don't have a shared need for one another. If you also look, I think I talked to a lot of white women about this, myself included. There's so many ways that we look in the mirror and all we see is our own face. I see my lines across my face. And I'm told over and over again, that these are the ointments are the treatments that I have to use to keep myself from aging. I'm told that so often, that I can't even look past my own face in the mirror anymore. I have to stop. And I have to be intentional about not wanting quick fixes to my own pain, to my own suffering, to my own desire to not die someday. When I'm really intentional about that, then I see the person in front of me. And I see that I need them. There is a discipline that we have to be committed to. We have to be disciplined people. Yeah, it takes a lot of work, to look past our own face in the mirror and see the precious other, to live as though we belong to one another. To live as though we need one another when everything in our cultural narrative is telling us the other.

Rex Hohlbein 57:41

Yeah, thank you for talking with me. If you're talking

Sparrow 57:44

with me, your beloved.

Rex Hohlbein 57:48

The issue of homelessness is complex and overwhelming for everyone. So much so that many of us turn away from the moments where and when it comes closest to us. In those moments, though, there is an opportunity, an opportunity to look into the eyes of someone struggling to hear their voice to feel some of their pain. And in that moment, and opportunity to shift homelessness from how it impacts you, too how it is impacting this person in front of you. You know me now is produced, written and edited by Tomasz Biernacki and me Rex Holbein, we would like to give a heartfelt thank you to Sparrow for taking the time to speak with us. You know me now has a Facebook and Instagram page where you can join in on the conversation. We also have a website at Ww w dot you know me now.com Where you can see photos of sparrow and the other programs that we host such as photo journal stories, artist spotlight in our podcast. Thanks as always for listening