Laura H: [00:00:00] I come here every day and do this and I'm still astounded daily at just how complicated The view that you might have when you look at something initially is probably wrong. It's not giving the complexity of people's real life situations the, the attention or the merit that it deserves, right? Um, you might see somebody and be like, why don't they go to a shelter?

Right? And then if you dig a little bit deeper, it's because, oh, Maybe there's not a shelter that's available or maybe that person has a, an animal with them that they love and they can't take that animal into shelter with them. So you're asking them to choose between being sheltered and being with their companion.

Anytime you find yourself thinking of an easy answer to a question, pause and be like, I bet it's more complicated than I'm giving it credit for. What is it that would make somebody not accept shelter if it were offered to them? [00:01:00] And then, how does that then point you towards actions that we could be doing as a society, as an institution, as a city, as a government, whatever it is, what could we be doing differently to make options that are more reflective of what people are actually facing and the complexities of their life and the nuances of their needs, so that We can collectively do what it is that we want to do, which is care for each other better, right?

I want to believe that I really do.

Rex H: I'm Rex Holbein and welcome to You Know Me Now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community as well as the individuals and organizations that are in service to those in need. In these episodes, I want to remind all of our listeners that the folks who share here do so with a great deal of courage and vulnerability.

They share a common hope that by giving all of us this window [00:02:00] into their world, they're opening an increased level of awareness. Understanding, and perhaps most importantly, a connection within our own community.

In every city and town across America, our libraries are loved. I know I smile to myself every time I come through the entry doors of the main branch in downtown Seattle. Or, for that matter, any one of the other neighborhood branches. I think it's connected to knowing, ahead of time, that I'm entering into a special place, similar to walking into a church or a museum.

Common to these spaces is that there are rules of conduct, ones that ask us to be respectful of others. I'm guessing a good many of our listeners, at one time or another when growing up and visiting the library, were told they were being too loud, that [00:03:00] they were disturbing others. By the time we're adults, we know most of these rules of conduct without being told.

For people experiencing homelessness, Libraries have always been sanctuaries. They provide shelter from inclement weather, access to water, and use of a bathroom. More recently, they offer use of the Internet and a place to charge devices. For many, and maybe most importantly, they are a safe place to be, a place where they are welcome.

As the number of people struggling on our streets increases, There is also an increased strain on our library system. We wanted to know how the Seattle Public Library was navigating the complexities of this issue. I think you're going to be surprised by what we found out.

Laura H: My name is Laura Harrington, and I am the Senior Community Resource Specialist for Seattle Public Library, which is a mouthful of a job title, but [00:04:00] essentially I'm a social worker by training, and my work here at the library is to act as a resource navigator.

for folks who need resources, largely that exist outside of the library, so to connect people to resources beyond what the library does, but, um, that impact their ability to be in our spaces and take full advantage of what the library has to offer.

Rex H: Wow, that's beautiful. I mean, really, that's, I didn't know that the library actually had such a person.

Laura H: Yeah. Do

Rex H: you? Do you work alone in that capacity? Or do you have a team?

Laura H: I have a team. Um, so I'm actually the latest hire to our social services or community resources team. It started after the covid pandemic, um, and started with the hire of a social services librarian. So our social services librarian is a librarian by training.

Um, and Her area of expertise is social services. So just like you might go to a genealogy librarian for help with ancestry, you can go to her for help with sort of what social services exist, how do you access them. She was the original kind of team member [00:05:00] here and then we have another community resource specialist who has a focus on young adults, um, and helping folks who are largely under the age of 26 access resources and do sort of the same work that I do.

And then my role is. Some direct service working directly with patrons doing that resource navigation and then some sort of administration thinking about how does the library respond and Offer social services more at like a policy or program management level

Rex H: Yeah, and I think you mentioned this but the first person that was hired when was that?

Laura H: Um, gosh, she's been here to a little over two years now, so it was kind of right on the heels of the library reopening post covid.

Rex H: I see. And before that time, did the Seattle Public Library have any type of social outreach?

Laura H: Yeah, so prior to prior to the pandemic for several years, um, we had a contract with D.

E. S. C. E. Downtown Emergency Services Center, and they had a case manager who would come in and essentially provide D. E. [00:06:00] S. C. Services from the library. Um, and so that was S. P. L. S. 1st kind of foray into social services in the library, um, and was. By all counts, very successful until COVID came and all of our buildings shut down and that, um, you know, prevented us from being able to do that model of work.

So during, um, during that kind of period of soul searching, um, SPL decided to, rather than restart that contract or bring in an outside entity, to think about how could a social services team be brought in house, be city employees, SPL employees, and then do not only that work of, um, directly serving patrons, but also how do we build partnerships in the social services arena, um, and then how do we also help better support staff's training and development around these

Rex H: things.

You're really, by bringing it in house, you're creating a culture.

Laura H: Right, right. As opposed

Rex H: to something external that's bumping around with you.

Laura H: Yep, you can come and see this person on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. Instead, it's like, [00:07:00]

Rex H: we

Laura H: realize this is a huge need, and that a social worker in the Central Library downtown, or even a social worker in all the libraries across the country, The city, all 26, 27 locations, um, isn't going to be enough.

We really need all staff to have a little more training. Um, you know, and staff at SPL are doing amazing work with folks in crisis, folks using substances, folks in mental health crisis all the time, but they're doing it without any kind of like formalized training or a singular institutional approach, right?

So what you get in one branch might be really different because of what those staff have. Been able to do, have experience doing. So that's

Rex H: part of what you're developing is a SPL wide kind of approach to the issue of, of needs that the community might have. You guys were founded in 1890, which I just recently figured out.

I mean, that's a long time, right? From 1890 to about five or six, seven years ago, where the [00:08:00] library started to actually. Operate in this manner. How do you think the library handled people in need before that? Because certainly the libraries are a hub, not just of learning, but of You know, a safe harbor and a place for

Laura H: people to be.

Rex H: Yeah.

Laura H: Yeah. I mean, I think it's a tension or like a challenge that libraries have struggled with since the beginning of libraries is like, who are we for and what is the kind of proper use of the library? And it's such a beautifully democratic institution of like, we are for everyone, right? And that's our, that's kind of our founding value, but operationalizing that is challenging, right?

Because how do you, how do you respond in Situations where one person's need or desired use is in conflict with someone else's whether that is, you know, whether I might say that that's right or or not, that happens. That's that's the tension of a public space. And so

Rex H: who gets to say if it is incorrect?

Correct? [00:09:00] Right?

Laura H: Yeah. And how do we as the as the stewards of this space and the stewards of these resources, how are we influenced by it? The loudest voices in the rooms or whatever that might be right. Um, and so I think that that has always been something that our leadership, that our staff have been aware of.

And it's also something that, you know, we, we have to weigh into. We, we can't afford to not have an approach to everything that comes through our doors. So. I think that the, the decision to really lean in more explicitly on social work or recognizing the overlap between library, public librarianship and social work was just that, like a recognition of something that was already happening and a desire to say, oh, we need to be doing

Rex H: Be more intentional.

Maybe, maybe

Laura H: not, yeah, maybe not doing more, but doing something with more forethought or doing things that we really know are the most, you know, evidence based responses to these needs or the most, I don't know, morally or ethically in [00:10:00] line with what we want to be doing as an institution.

Rex H: Yeah, I mean, if you're being intentional, then suddenly you're being aware of what's also not working and what's working and you can repeat.

Laura H: We can iterate, we can think, Oh, that didn't work well. What can we do differently? You have a place

Rex H: for that to happen. Exactly. Versus if DESC was doing it, they were taking it back to DESC and saying, Hey, we ran into this. But maybe SPL wasn't moving forward.

Laura H: Sure, yeah, and how, yeah, yeah. And I think the, the shift from contract social work to in house social work is such a great example of like, let's pause and think about what are, not just necessarily like what did we do wrong or what wasn't working, but What do we need now?

Right. And what do we need for an institution truly of this size? Um, and where we have, I mean, our branches are all across the city. Like the needs of Queen Anne are really different than the needs, even of Magnolia, which is, you know, pretty close. And then the needs of Lake City versus South Park are hugely different.

Right. And so having us as a team, I think our, if we can do our work [00:11:00] well, which we're still a new team, so we're striving for this, but if we can do our work well, we can really help Branch staff who are the experts in their community who are most tapped into their like local neighborhoods, we can really help them figure out what a social services look like or what does being able to provide information and referral and connections to resources in this neighborhood look like for these people, for this population and to really allow them to run with that right and have it not be one size fits all across the city.

Rex H: Create a, create a structure that informs but doesn't necessarily dictate how you move forward. Yes, that's so well said. Each branch can move forward on their own. I'm curious, how did that come about? Like was it upper management that just said, hey, or did it come from below? Where? Yeah. How does that actually take place?

Because that's a big step, I would say, right? I mean, to basically say we're going to bring social workers. In house at the Seattle Public Library.

Laura H: Yeah, I know that there are a few people who have been real [00:12:00] champions of this work So for example, Valerie wonder she's a regional manager for the downtown region So she oversees this building which is the only library location in our region But she's been at SPL for a really long time first in sort of like community outreach, which is a Separate unit, um, our community engagement team, um, and then, uh, sort of rising into, into branch leadership and she's been a real advocate for working with D.

E. S. C. I think she was integral in creating that contract. Um, and then thinking about, okay, let's do that revisiting. Um, so I think it's, it's both sort of, uh, So, definitely, um, it's definitely a, an ask that has come from staff, I know, consistently about like, we need more support. What can we do? We need more.

This

Rex H: happened and I want to know how should I respond? Yeah,

Laura H: exactly. So I know that that is, um, that staff are huge advocates for, you know, for patrons and getting help for patrons who need [00:13:00] it in various ways. Um, but then I do think, you know, our leadership has been really responsive and, um, definitely aware of that need as well.

Good

Rex H: job, Seattle Public Library. Yeah, I mean, I feel really lucky. I'm impressed, quite frankly.

Laura H: It's interesting because we have, um, we have a group of social workers in libraries across the country that come together and like we have a little call every, um, every two weeks where we just, you know, troubleshoot and think like, Oh, I'm struggling with this or what, what have you guys done for This, that or the other.

Um, and it's tremendous. It's great. And it's such a lifeline as I start because I'm new to libraries. And so, um, just learning the landscape of this industry has been really challenging. Um, and then to be sort of of libraries, but sort of also separate. Um, it has been, it has been hard. So this group has been really helpful, but the way that social work gets practiced at libraries across the country is so different.

And I do feel like there is something that I really um, just love and respect about SPL's approach to really focus [00:14:00] on like, how do we Culturally change what it is that we're doing and recognize that as an institution, not just as like you're the social worker. You can work with all the folks who are living outside, you know, but instead to say this is something we want to do as well.

The

Rex H: beautiful thing about what you're talking about in creating a culture is that then you're in a position to help change the culture in Seattle. You know, you can go from Seattle Public Library. This is our view. This is how we interact. This is how we, we create, uh, dignity and, and, and the ability to see each person, uh, in the library system.

That becomes infectious, I think, in how,

Laura H: you

Rex H: know, Seattle citizens can see each other.

Laura H: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that I think one of the things that's really powerful about libraries as a site for this is. Libraries, again, are for everyone, and so it is one of these places that are unique in our city, and I think unique in our culture, where, you know, we are as valued by someone who, you know, is really wealthy and comes here for books and educational [00:15:00] content or, you know, whatever it might be, and as valued by someone who's living And it's coming here maybe to charge their phone or to participate in a program or whatever it might be up

Rex H: some services.

Laura H: Yeah. And so the opportunity for those two hemispheres to meet and mix and see the humanity in each other. Right. And then what can happen from those moments of like, authentic, like Here we are sharing this thing that we both love and value or, you know, bumping into each other. Yeah, I do think it's special and unique in our current social settings.

Rex H: Absolutely. I love that. That's beautiful. So before we dive into some of the the programs, some of the ways that you go about your work, Who is the Seattle Public Library? Like what is your mission? What is what like I know you're a place of learning and opportunity for for citizens, but is there a Is there an elevator pitch that you have?

Laura H: There, yes, and I'm, I should be better about like, what is our, our technical mission? What we do here? So, the library I know, um, one of the things [00:16:00] that I love about our mission statement is that our goal is to connect people to information. To connect people to information in a democratic way. So we're not here to judge what it is that you want to learn about or what it is that you want to do.

We're here to facilitate those connections, right? So if you want to, um, read books about, um, magic, great. Let's, we want to be able to help you do that. If you need help researching, you know, something else entirely, we want to be able to do that. And so we really want to be responsive to and. reflective of that community, um, that we, that we are stewards of this amazing resource for, for the, for the entirety of the Seattle population.

Um, and so we don't, we don't discriminate on, you know, what it is that you want to learn about or access the topic

Rex H: is, yeah,

Laura H: it's not our business, right? We're like, we just want you to be able to connect to this, um, to this resource and to be able to take full advantage of that.

Rex H: You know what I hear in all that is, and tell me if, if, um, if this is correct, but it's It's not [00:17:00] just democratic, uh, access to knowledge and information.

It feels like community building, too. Yes.

Laura H: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And we think of the library as a community hub. Right? I mean, we're one place that. You can go in your community to connect with each other, to connect to that information, but also to just like find joy and light and, you know, curiosity and to really lean into that.

And I love that about the library. And that's also what we want for folks who, you know, you think of as sort of my demographic or who I'm here to work with. Folks who are living outside or who might be in mental health crisis. We also want them to be able to engage in the things that bring them joy, right?

So that it's not just about like, let's meet your basic needs. Let's get you, you know, connected to tax help or whatever it is that people need, but also to say, what are you curious about? What do you love? What do you want to learn about or engage with? Do you want to do a craft project? Do you want to, you know, yeah, whatever it might be.

Rex H: That's beautiful. So that's a good segue into, um, you know, we are one community, but, but [00:18:00] also we're broken into. Um, you know, different groups within that community and, and one of the big groups that we talk a lot about with homelessness is, you know, the us and them, the housed and the unhoused, you know, and, and of course, those two groups are meeting and mixing at the library.

Um, can you talk a little bit about that? Is that, is that difficult for, you know, for folks that are in the house community suddenly having to? Interact, maybe, maybe the only time ever they interact with someone that's homeless when they're at the library and, um, and vice versa too. Yeah. Both, both are going to be, um, experiencing a different type of vibe.

other.

Laura H: Yeah, I mean it de that tension of like bein we are sort of a microcos that's happening in our c that there is something s Two populations can mix and [00:19:00] meet and hopefully focus on the overlap in the Venn diagram, right? Our shared humanity, um, you know, our shared love of whatever program we're attending.

Um, but of course it is intention as well. Um, and again, it goes back to like, what's my idea of my entitlement to this shared space? Um, and then how do I balance that as a patron with. Someone else's need to use the space for something very different that I might not agree with. Um, I think one of the,

Rex H: that also might be interrupting my personal space.

Exactly. Not necessarily even physically that close, but smells, sounds, erratic behavior, whatever is unfolding.

Laura H: Yeah. And then

Rex H: how do you create that bandwidth? For every person right to navigate that

Laura H: yeah, and it's a point that we you know staff are always Acting I think of them a little bit as like party hosts right where you're like.

I'm curating a space I'm curating a shared space and trying to [00:20:00] Mediate any of those disputes that come up and so that is a role of staff right to try to think about What is the dominant use for this space and how do we help everyone act in accordance with that again? Not so that we're Policing space or, you know, policing people's behavior necessarily, but really thinking about how do we create a

Rex H: facilitate?

Laura H: Yeah, how do we create a space where the most number of us can enjoy it and enjoy being together? But also being separate and alone or you know having my workspace or whatever it might be but it is challenging, you know And I think that it is in that challenge. I try to look at it as like in that challenge There's a moment of opportunity for us to You know, to be educating people about, like, oh, when you see someone in crisis in the library, maybe that's a moment where we can talk to you about, well, here's how we're going to respond, or here's how my colleague might respond.

Maybe I can talk to you a little bit about, you know, the reasons why that person might be in crisis, not the particular, like, private reasons of that individual patron, but to say. Oh, yeah. You know, it's, it's, um, somebody who is having an [00:21:00] outburst in the library today. And, um, yeah, because it's really cold and wet outside and, you know, maybe their tent got rained on or they, they're soaking wet.

And so giving them a little bit of grace, but using those moments to try to connect.

Rex H: Yeah. Educate.

Laura H: Educate. And then again, think about

Rex H: how

Laura H: do we mitigate the impact on you, but also how do we mitigate the impact of you on someone else? Yeah.

Rex H: You know, what I really love that you just, what you just did is that like when I asked that question, I expected.

You know, I expected your answer was going to be that you were somehow in a de escalation manner, in a sensitive way. You were going to go to the person that was causing.

Laura H: Sure. The issue.

Rex H: Yeah, right. I'm gonna I'm gonna work beautifully with this But you actually you actually did the opposite you Beautifully you went to the person that was being impacted and said first.

Hey You know, we're gonna go talk to this person, but we also want to let you know. This is what's happening and And maybe help try to create more [00:22:00] bandwidth and, you know, more understanding.

Laura H: Yeah. And it's, that's beautiful. It's both, right? Like we do have to do both. And again, that's our job. That's the job of being here for everyone, right?

Is that I need to be here to hear your frustrations with like,

Rex H: I just

Laura H: wanted to come here and like have a quiet moment. And somebody is having their, you know, outburst over there and that bothers me. And I need to be here for that person. Right. But I also need to be here for that other person to say, They're having a tough day and what can we do to like turn down the volume?

Rex H: Well, you're modeling the kind of behavior we want in society.

Laura H: Yeah, yeah, I hope so.

Rex H: But let's dig a little further into that. Like in those moments, um, let's say someone is having erratic behavior or, um, maybe, maybe we can even actually go into, I know the library has rules of conduct. Yep. Right. And I, and I was actually, when I looked through your website, I was impressed how there are levels of rules from moving furniture in the, in the, in the simplest type thing and a list of other things.

But as you move down that list. [00:23:00] Are you all trained or educated how to address those violations and what the correct response would be?

Laura H: Yeah, we are. So, rules of conduct are our way of, again, like, keeping, keeping the space. Trying to, as equitably as we can, think about what does it mean to be a participant in this space and how do we then, you know, yeah, monitor that behavior, correct that behavior, um, for the, for the good of everyone.

Um, It's difficult because Those rules of conduct many of them not just at SPL, but historically many if you look through them Some of the examples of what is prohibited in the library is pretty targeted towards certain populations So for instance, there's rules of conduct Across the country that limit the the size of belongings that you can bring with you into a library This is my opinion but I don't think that that that prohibition on like [00:24:00] large things is against me going to Um, kill a few time, few hours of time at the library on my way to the airport.

You know, my flight gets delayed and I'm hanging out at the library with my big suitcase. That's probably not what that rule of conduct was originally created to prohibit. It was preventing people from who. bringing in a shopping cart of their belongings, right? Um, which again, speaks to a need in our community for people to store their belongings safely if they don't have a home.

Um, and so some of those things are contentious because we don't necessarily Police them in the same way. We don't say, sorry, person going to the airport. You've got to find somewhere else to hang out with your luggage, but we may be more quick to have that conversation with a homeless person in their shopping cart.

Right? So the rules of conduct are tricky and especially like as someone who's Um, coming from that social work, social justice perspective, um, who's new to libraries, the rules of conduct have been an area where I'm like, [00:25:00] whoa, how do we balance like who we want to be with, like when the rubber hits the road and we have to figure out a way to manage this public space well for all these competing priorities, you know?

So I don't know. They're, they're difficult.

Rex H: And, and is that, is that Part of the cultural change that the library is going through now through its own education. Yes, and

Laura H: and one of the big initiatives That's been happening for years now is a revision of the rules of conduct into more of a community use agreement model So now we're shifting hopefully in 2025.

They will come online more Towards a these are your rights and responsibilities as a participant of the library and less away from you can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do this. And you can't do this, you know, in this certain way, but really to think about again, like we are communally building this place and this space.

Um, and we want to be in partnership with our patrons and thinking about how do you do that in a way that's going to allow you to enjoy the [00:26:00] space, but also allow everybody else to enjoy it as well.

Rex H: Yeah, I imagine that. One is that's beautiful, giving responsibility and ownership, you know, to the individual.

I also can see if, if the, if the broader community hasn't come up along with SPL in this cultural shift, right? If it's only happening at, at, within the, you know, the staff at SPL, then you could see a greater number of people. Coming to the library that are in need, uh, of basic needs, not just needs of knowledge.

And start to use the library as a shelter, and you could see people who are housed making the decision not to come.

Laura H: Do

Rex H: you worry about that?

Laura H: I don't worry about it. I think it's something for us to be aware of, and I think that it is, it is a huge part of my job, just the like, Thinking about what is our [00:27:00] lane as the library, you know, to be frank, like we're not trained to be a social service organization.

We're not, um, that's not, and that's not what we're aiming to be. We want to have this as an aspect of what we can do, and we want to be able to do it well and do it consistently and do it with like training, but we also need to know. Where's the limit of our expertise? And how do we then not just say, Ooh, that's beyond what I can do, or I'm uncomfortable with that.

But to say, how do I transition you to the correct organization or entity that can really care for you in the way that you need care, connection, resources, whatever it is? I do think we're conscious of sort of. Riding that line. Um, so that we're not ever getting to the point where we're like, oh, and we've totally transitioned into a day center for, you know, homeless adults or whatever it may be.

I think that there's always more that we can be doing. And there's more that we can be encouraging partners to do or ways that we can work with other organizations to maybe do some of their work [00:28:00] in ways that Better meet our patrons needs, um, or that alleviate some of the friction that our patrons experience when trying to access those resources.

So there's work that we can do but I do think that there is there's a pretty sharp clear boundary of like We're a library at the end of the day and there's only so much that we can do And how do we do what we can do really really well and really thoughtfully and then how do we? Not do what we can't do equally thoughtfully as well as that and clear.

Rex H: Yeah, it does. That's a good answer I mean to clearly define where the boundary is

Laura H: right

Rex H: also helps, you know nip in the bud any false Expectations of what this right?

Laura H: That's actually something we deal with all the time as And why our job titles are community resource specialist, not social worker.

Because we really don't want people to be like, you're my case manager, like, you're going to get me into housing. Where I'm like, I would love it if I had a supply of housing that I could, you know, help people get into. But, you know, I want to be really clear with people. And so a lot of our conversations when we [00:29:00] are working directly with patrons is to say, Okay, here's what my job is.

Here's what my job isn't. And here's what I will do to make sure that where my expertise or my resources or ability ends, I can get you to that next step. Right. Um, but it is hard because people who are in crisis or who are in like a significant moment of imminent need are not like, Oh, I understand the technical differences between case management and, you know, social work as an approach, you know, and so we have to be really, you know, careful and thoughtful about

Rex H: You know, to help people that are housed understand why are people that are unhoused coming to the library, can you talk a little bit about that?

What are the services, what are the benefits of someone that is finding themselves living on the street? What do they find at the library?

Laura H: Yeah, we, yeah, we asked this recently. We just dipped our toe into a community listening process, which we're hoping to really expand as a team in [00:30:00] 2025 to hear most directly from folks that we're hoping to, you know.

And we asked like, yeah, what brings you to the library? Why do you come here? Like, what is it that we are already doing that you like and what could we be doing better? People come for all different kinds of reasons. Um, people come because it's a free place to spend time during the day. Um, there are very few places where you can hang out all day with no one bothering you, no one asking you to buy another cup of coffee, nobody asking you to spend money for other reasons.

So I think just access

Rex H: to bathroom, access

Laura H: to bathrooms, access to running water, you know, drinking fountains, things like that. I think it just To, yeah, to have a place where you can be is really, really important. Um, and in, inherent in that is also shelter from the elements, right? So when it is really hot in Seattle, those like 10 days that tend to happen every year, um, a lot of our branches are air conditioned.

So it's a cool place to be. In the winter, it's a dry place to be. It's a warm place to be. And it's a place where [00:31:00] ideally, like if we're doing our job well, you are welcome. Right. Not just where you're tolerated, but you are welcome to be here and we are here to help you connect to other things if you want that.

And if not, that's cool too. You can just hang out and charge your phone chill, you know? Yeah. People come for the computer access. You know, we know it's darn near impossible to do anything these days if you're not connected to the internet. Um, and so for. Folks who, uh, maybe don't have cell phones or don't have reliable internet access or cell access.

They can come here, use our public computers. We have a courtesy phone on the first floor. And so you can make local calls if you need to, if you don't have a cell phone, you can print things. So just a ton of different things.

Rex H: And if somebody does have specific needs, like whether it's mental health, drug rehab, you know, job, housing, any of that, do you, do you have someone that can sit down and talk to them about what direction they can be pointed into?

Laura H: Yep. So that's our role here, myself and then the other community resource specialist at Central. We are at the Central Library. And so [00:32:00] one of the Like dreams for the future is figuring out a way that we could be more present in branches across all these regions. Currently, that work kind of falls to our colleagues, um, who again have been doing it very well and doing it for a long time.

But one of our goals is that we can. Like, act as a resource filtration system in a way, um, so that when our colleagues are trying to connect somebody to detox, they don't have to, like, start by Googling, like, detox now Seattle and, like, trying to wade through all of these resources that are out there, competing bits of information, calling a bunch of phone numbers, not getting through.

But instead, we can say, here's your first step. step, you know, um, and ideally here's somebody that you can call that we know that we have an established relationship with who's familiar with what the setting of the library is and can really help. So um, that's a tall

Rex H: order.

Laura H: It is. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Rex H: Those services are forever coming and going.

Laura H: Yes.

Rex H: I mean, they get funded, they don't get funded, you know, [00:33:00] and this is, and that's a source of frustration because. I know many people that are homeless get handed phone numbers and people to talk to and then they call and sorry, that number has been disconnected. Absolutely. Yes,

Laura H: it's frustrating and of course you can understand why experiences like that would lead somebody to stop asking for or accepting help, right?

Because why would you want to keep chasing something that Implicitly by its lack of availability is being it's being told to you that it is not a priority that you get that thing, right? And so, um, I totally understand that and that's again Why one of our goals as a team is not to be like I'm gonna give you the printout from 211 about all the drug detoxes that exist allegedly, but instead I'm gonna sit with you and I'm gonna Okay, what are your unique characteristics or criteria?

What are your identities? How do I match you to something that's really going to be a good fit for you, not just A fit allegedly. And then how do we like call that together? Or, [00:34:00] or how do I make sure that you have some way to call a way to get there on the bus? Can I give you a bus ticket or a light rail pass so that you're not just out there on your own trying to access?

You know, you have a homework list and that's

Rex H: beautiful. And as you're walking that line, Going back to what you said earlier, we're not a case manager.

Laura H: Totally, yeah. So you're like, you're flirting

Rex H: that line, you're acting a little bit like a case manager. You need to remind them that you're not.

Laura H: Yeah.

Rex H: It's hard.

It's

Laura H: really hard. And it's hard to do. I mean, we have the privilege, um, here at Central, myself and my colleague who does this work as well, that we can spend a good amount of time with someone, right? We can sit down and say, okay, you're telling me that you want to go to detox, but you've tried it. X, Y, and Z before, and it hasn't worked, let's talk about why, so I can try to find some place that doesn't share those characters, that can be a long conversation, and it should be a long conversation, because it's really important, and I have the privilege in my schedule to do that, because this is my work, but branch staff don't have [00:35:00] that, right?

They're on the team. Desk, they're helping somebody with computer help. They're doing this and that and the other. And so again, that's why it's really important for us and why one of our goals as a team is to curate information, not just for patrons, but for staff too, so that they can do as much of that relational work, um, and save time on the administrative work of finding those resources and connecting to them.

Yeah.

Rex H: Yeah.

Laura H: You know, we are a small team and we're trying to do a lot of different things. We want to be available to people. That's our goal, right? Our goal is to be here for folks who, for whatever reason, haven't been able to get the help that they deserve from somewhere else. And if the library is able to be that place where, um, you can get that help, great.

And I think that's, again, one of the powerful things about social work in this setting is you can walk into the DSHS office, and there might be some stigma attached to that, right? Cause that is a place that has a legacy, a history, a lot of societal, you know, burdens, but you [00:36:00] can walk into the library and nobody knows what you're doing here, right?

And it is a place where, yeah, it's generally like pretty beloved. And so walking in here and getting help might carry less weight than it is to go to DSHS. I love that you're

Rex H: announcing that. I, I had a very similar experience with. When I first started this, the people walking into my architect's office, yes, they weren't walking in to a place that had a sign out that says, you know, you're broken.

Laura H: Totally. I'm

Rex H: in here. You're here

Laura H: because you need help. Yeah,

Rex H: they were walking into a professional office.

Laura H: Yeah, you can be here for any reason. And again, we're not judging that reason. We're here for whatever that need is. Um, and you're walking in those

Rex H: doors. Somebody, the first assumption is you're going in to get a book.

Laura H: Yeah. Yeah.

Rex H: Yeah. That's fantastic. So I come into the library, I'm having a mental health breakdown episode, I come to you and I say, I need help. Give me an example of what you say to me.

Laura H: Yeah. My first instinct is always to try [00:37:00] to thank someone and recognize that, um, and just thank them for telling me that, because it takes a lot, again, going back to, if you've been through this again and again, and you've asked for help, and you've asked for help, and the help hasn't ever been delivered, um, it's a huge act of trust and vulnerability and courage to say that again to someone else, and also someone who's new to you, right?

Folks we have great ongoing relationships with a lot of people. I see them one day and I never see them again. Right? And so it is, um, you're saying that to a stranger, somebody that you don't know how it's going to be met. So to recognize that, that's

Rex H: beautiful, by the way.

Laura H: Yeah. I mean, that's like, that's I have a, I have a little cartoon at my desk, um, that one of my old colleagues at a different job gave me and it's somebody like hanging off the side of a cliff and it says, you know, I've always had a hard time asking for help.

And so I am that person. I have a hard time asking for help in my personal life. And so when someone is willing to come and ask me for help, I'm like, you're braver than I am. Let's go. You know, Um, so yes, so I, I, that is always my first instinct. And [00:38:00] then to really explore with them, um, what do you,

Rex H: do you go find a quiet spot in the library or do they, such a

Laura H: good question?

Yeah. If we can, um, that is one of the challenging things about practicing our work in this setting is that there aren't a ton of private places. Again, by design. This is a public building. So we try to do it as privately as we can. And again, that's something that I would explore with the patron to say, like, are you comfortable talking about that here?

Do you want to find a different area? Is there a place in the library where you're most comfortable so that we can have the conversation sort of as much on your terms as, as possible, but there are not hugely, you know, we don't have a private office or anything like that that we're working with folks in, um, we're out on the public floor.

Uh,

Rex H: but just the fact that you're, You're aware and respectful of their. their need for privacy and being comfortable.

Laura H: Yeah. Which privacy is at such a premium when you are living outside, you're living in the public eye and that comes with a lot of stress, [00:39:00] you know, and so to try to give people as much privacy as possible and to say that, like, Your business deserves privacy.

I can't give you total privacy, but I will give you what I can and then to talk with them about what it is that they want to accomplish. Or, um, you know, what is it that you you're saying that you're in this crisis? What do you think would help you get out of that crisis? What is it that you're looking for?

Um, and then to again, talk about what it is that I can do within that realm, what it is that crafting it based

Rex H: on their needs,

Laura H: Yeah, yeah. And we always try to have a conversation with folks about like, what have you already tried? Because again, I don't want to give somebody a long list of resources that they're like, yeah, I called all those yesterday and there's nothing, right?

But instead I want to be thinking, okay, have you, what have you tried? What didn't work? Why didn't it work for you? What was it that kind of, where were those gaps? And then are there things that I am aware of or that I can connect you to that might fill those gaps that you haven't tried before? And then if that doesn't work, come back and we'll try something else, you know?

Yeah.

Rex H: Okay, so I'm, I'm 18. I walk in the [00:40:00] doors. I come straight to you and I say, I'm addicted to fentanyl. I want to get off of this. What do I do?

Laura H: Yeah. So I would ask you to explain a little bit about, I guess, what makes fentanyl? What, what would you, what would an ideal resolution look like? What is your next step?

Do you have an idea of what your next step is? Um, and then what is it that feels hard about taking that next step? And then we'd explore together sort of based on what you are identifying as hard. What might What can we do together in this brief time that we're working together to overcome that hard step, um, and, and figure out a way to move a little bit closer.

Maybe we can't get all the way. Um, and that's another part of the conversation is like, what can we do today? And then what can we, you know, set you up to be doing in the future as well?

Rex H: I don't mean to throw a bunch of hardball questions at you, but how do you, so, so let's say both of these examples of mental health and, [00:41:00] and, uh, You know, drug use, substance use disorder.

And they basically come to you and they say, no, I, I want to go to detox. I want to, I want to go to treatment or I need a therapist. I need to go see a psychologist. One of the frustrations for anybody that jumps in to help somebody, right, it could be anybody, a citizen that just happens to meet someone that's struggling on the streets and they have a kind heart and they want to do something.

So they start and so they get on their phone and they start calling.

Laura H: Yeah.

Rex H: And they quickly hit that brick wall because we don't have enough resources. We don't have enough detox beds. We don't have enough therapists, psychologists.

Laura H: How

Rex H: do you navigate that?

Laura H: Yeah, my first instinct is to Pull on the relational threads that hopefully we have built in that area.

So for instance We have a good relationship with the Harborview opioid based office [00:42:00] based opioid treatment team Obot and there they have come to some of our events here our coffee date that we have on Wednesday mornings here They're pure navigators pure counselors just come and hang out and like mix and mingle with folks And so somebody came and they were like I am struggling with opioid use disorder and I want to take my next step.

I'm not a drug counselor. I'm not an expert in that area. I'm a generalist. I know a little bit about a lot of different things and so my goal is to connect you to that person who's really good at that and that expert. So rather than calling like a general office number, I would be like Ding, ding, ding.

Who in my Rolodex can I call that I have a connection to, that I've built a relationship between the library and their organization. So I would call the OBOT team or I would call, um, I'm forgetting out of pure, um, Washington, they have a team of like drug counselors who can come out on site and talk to somebody and then transport them to detox if they're able to get them a bed.

So I would call them and, um, so again, [00:43:00] that's part of our work is to try to build those relationships to say, okay, we're a

Rex H: community.

Laura H: Yeah. And to, and to think about, okay, we're getting a lot of questions about, you know, about detox, or we're getting a lot of questions about mental health counseling, who out there is doing a great job with that.

And how do I learn from them? How to best connect my patrons who might need that to them in that moment of their need.

Rex H: Yeah, that's great. I love that. It's based in relationship, right? That's just, it's always comes back to that. You know, what are the relationships that the sale public library has in the community Yes.

Providing service. And how

Laura H: are we doing that, like? How is it not transactional, right? So I'm not just sending somebody or calling on you as the, you know, that, that resource, but what, what is it that we can do to you, um, to support your work, right? So for the OBOT team, they're like, yeah, we'd love to just have a place where we could meet community or like be out there.

So great. We have that. So again, what is it that we can do? What's our lane? What's our piece of the pie? It's going to take all of us to address any [00:44:00] of that. And so what is our little piece that we can do? And then how do we uplift the work of the other folks that are, you know, our partners in this? And then the last thing that I will say is the other thing that I always strive to do is be honest with people.

So when there isn't. A resource or when I'm like, I've called everybody that I know, and I don't have an answer for you to just say that, you know, and to not be like, well, um, here's a number that gets you out of my, you know, bucket of things to do, but kicks you down the curb, um, instead to be like, you know, I've really exhausted, um, the resources that I know of.

I'm happy to keep thinking about it and keep trying, But for right now, what are you going to do? You said that you want to get into detox. I can't get you into detox right now. What are you going to do to, you know, bolster yourself in this mindset that you're in right now to tide you over until tomorrow where we can have this conversation again, or we can call those numbers again.

We can try again. What are [00:45:00] you going to do in this time period? You know, or I can't find you a shelter bed tonight. What are you going to do? What did you do last night? How did you get through last night? And can you do that again tonight?

Rex H: You become a brainstorming part, right?

Laura H: And again, I'm like, you have the answer within yourself, probably, of like, how, you know, how were you resilient the last time you were in trouble?

How do we, how do we, yeah. The

Rex H: issue, of course, with being on the survival line is your field of vision narrows to almost, the answer might be right here, but your field of vision doesn't even, and that's why brainstorming with someone that cares is so important because you hear a little bit about it and you say, well, have you thought about this?

You talked about your sister. Yeah, could you call her? Yeah. Yeah, but that, that becomes difficult if your brain is racing and

Laura H: totally well, and just to give people, I think oftentimes my job is like validating bad and for bad news. Right? And this happens with staff and patrons where I'm like, Yeah, you're right.

It sucks. It sucks that there's [00:46:00] not a resource. You deserve a resource and there's not one for you. And I'm sorry about that, you know, um, and to just like validate for people that it's not something that you haven't tried. It's not something that you haven't done. You just didn't think of something. It's not because you're failing, you know, and staff need to hear that, too, because again, this is not As you said, social service information, it's changing all the time, one day a website works, the next day it's gone, today there's beds, tomorrow there's not, this person that you called and had a great conversation with and felt was in partnership last week is on to a different job, and so often times staff are like I thought I could be on top of this.

I am very good at finding information and getting people information. That's the library's whole job. But this area of information is really different and, and for some reason so tricky and so hard and such a quagmire. And so to just validate for staff like Hey, when you can't find someone a shelter bed, it's not because you didn't look hard enough.

It's because there's not enough shelter beds and they're really hard to get into. And you can't get anybody into shelter after like 5 p. m. pretty much, you know,

Rex H: basically the [00:47:00] system is broke. It's not you.

Laura H: Totally. Exactly. And to just hear that it's like, it's not a, it's not consolation. It's like 2 percent you can feel better.

Right. Um, just because you're like, okay, it doesn't take care of the

Rex H: problem. It doesn't solve the

Laura H: problem, but it at least makes us. Colleagues in that problem, right? Like, now we are on the same team of identifying that is the problem and what are we going to do to fix that problem, not the problem that we think it is, which is not

Rex H: true, you know?

Exactly. What would you tell other organizations? Mm

Laura H: hmm.

Rex H: And, and quite frankly, anybody that's housed. Yeah. About, um, what you've learned working. At the sale, public library interfacing with people that are, you know, struggling without basic needs being met. What,

Laura H: what are

Rex H: some of the things that you would just highlight that are important?

Laura H: Yeah, I, this is my job. I come here every day and do this and I'm still astounded daily at just how complicated things really are and how the, the view that you might have when you look at [00:48:00] something Um, Initially is probably wrong, and it is like so it's not giving the complexity of people's real life situations.

The attention or the merit that it deserves, right? You might see somebody and be like, Why don't they go to a shelter? Right? And then if you dig a little bit deeper, it's because, oh, maybe there's not a shelter that's available, or maybe that person has a, an animal with them that they love, and they can't take that animal into shelter with them.

So you're asking them to choose between being sheltered and being with their companion, you know, um, maybe, or,

Rex H: Or bedbugs, or intimidation, or claustrophobia, or they can't,

Laura H: or their gender identity isn't validated by any of the shelter options that we have, or they can't be in their mixed gender couple.

There's no couples options in, well, there's very few couples options in the city, right? And so just to like, anytime you find yourself thinking of an easy answer to a question, To pause and be like, I [00:49:00] bet it's more complicated than I'm giving it credit for. Um, and to just become curious about what are those complexities, right?

Um, what is it that would make somebody not accept shelter if it were offered to them? And then how does that then Point you towards actions that we could be doing as a society, as an institution, as a city, as a government, whatever it is, an organization as a neighbor. What could we be doing differently to make options that are more reflective of what people are actually facing and the complexities of their life and the nuances of their needs so that we can.

Collectively do what it is that we want to do, which is care for each other better, right? Uh, I, I, I want to believe that I really do. Um, so to just be curious and doubtful of like easy answers, I think is like the one thing that we can all do, right? And I count myself among them.

Rex H: Yeah, that's beautiful. As you were talking, I was thinking to myself, damn, the Seattle Public [00:50:00] Library is lucky to have you.

I really mean that. That's a really beautiful thing that you just shared. Yeah. Thank you. Um, what would you say And To all the people that are struggling unsheltered, that are coming, what would you, if you could hold every one of them and say something to them, what would you say to them?

Laura H: That you matter, you know, that you matter and like that you belong here at the library just like everyone else in this city.

That we want to hear from you, that we want to, um, learn from you, that we want to learn together with you, um, and to just, I guess, not Take the worst treatment that you have been dealt as representative of what this city Feels about you, you know, um, and to, to hopefully hold onto that belief that there are people out there, people who are your neighbors, people who are in positions like mine, people who are in organizations, um, who really do care and are, are trying to do things in response to the requests that you're making of us, um, or asking us for, [00:51:00] um, but that we need your help to, uh, To guide us and correct us when we do things that are stupid or not, you know, helpful.

Um, but that your voice really, yeah, that your voice really matters in that. And that, you know, this is at least I can speak for, for my work. This is a place where that, that feedback and that perspective is really welcome. Um, and we want to continue to strive to change what we're doing to be better, to be more thoughtful, to be more responsive to what folks are asking from us.

Um, and from this institution. Yeah.

Rex H: What, what are some of the beautiful moments? Interfacing with people that have, that are outside that you've experienced that keep you charged to be doing this.

Laura H: Yeah, some of my favorite moments. So, um, the, there's a program at the library, which is also at other libraries across the country called Coffee and Conversations.

And our colleagues at the Ballard library were the ones who first started it here at SPL. And it's an opportunity for just what it says, coffee and conversation. So come by, drop in, have a cup of coffee. Meet people, talk, um, sometimes [00:52:00] we have like a conversation topic, and sometimes we just go freeform.

Sometimes people talk, and sometimes people just get their coffee and leave, and that's totally cool too. But some of my favorite moments are watching patrons. Make connections with each other or make connections with staff because staff often are in They're in a position where like we are asked a specific question by patrons, right?

And maybe we chit chat a little bit, but we don't often get to just be like Person to person. Like I'm not in my role, you know, wearing my badge at this moment. Um, but like, we're just people having a cup of coffee, not an agenda, right? Exactly. You're not here for a specific question. I'm not trying to dispense information.

Um, and so I love watching that happen. And then I love watching patrons connect, right? Somebody who maybe just sits down next to somebody else and then they strike up a conversation. Um, and just thinking about how the library. On our best days, that's what we do really well, right, is like, be, be that connector between people and [00:53:00] ideas between people and people between organizations, community, um, and seeing that play out and just seeing then like those patrons playing chess together later on the fifth floor, whatever it is, like, that's, that's huge, right?

To just be like, oh, man, like. Somebody, somebody had a little bit more joy, a little bit more connection. Somebody maybe felt less alone.

Rex H: Yeah. That's, those are building block moments for healthy community.

Laura H: Absolutely. That's, that's it. That's

Rex H: in real time watching it being. Yeah,

Laura H: yeah.

Rex H: You know, one thing that I think also, um, that's easy to miss in so many parts of our lives is to, is to overlook how important something is to another person.

And, and I, and I, I do think that most people that are housed don't understand. How very important, um, the library is to the unhoused. Like it's, it is a lifeline. And, um, I'll tell a quick story. There was a really beautiful man that had a number of mental health issues, but also extremely smart, extremely charming.

His name was Wes Green. [00:54:00] He has passed, died of a fentanyl overdose. But he always had a book and he was always wanting to say, Have you read this? Oh my God. Yeah. But he, he must have created some, some, um, situation in the Bowerd Library.

Laura H: Oh.

Rex H: And he got banned.

Laura H: Yeah.

Rex H: And he was banned for about a month and, you know, he would come to my office and he was so distraught.

Yeah. You know, and I, this isn't a, this isn't any kind of negative to the library. No, it's, yeah. I know that, I know that a line was crossed and they did what they needed to do. But, um, but. It was so devastating for him. I mean, he really was, he went into depression about it. Because the library, and I think in a way, is home.

Um, for a lot of folks that are outside.

Laura H: Yeah. No, I feel that so deeply. And we, we as a library in general, it's, it is the worst thing we have to do is when we have to like ban someone or exclude someone for [00:55:00] behavior. Because, you know, we have to rep, Respect those lines that, um, are uncrossable, right? And there has to be, there have to be rules, um,

Rex H: but

Laura H: yeah, there have to be consequences, but it is awful to deprive somebody of, um, this resource, right?

And all of, all of what this means to people, many times, things that we don't even know. We can't fathom what it means to someone, right? We don't know all of the ways that it might improve their life or, you know, give them access to. Connection and so it is it is awful and it's not something that we take lightly.

Um, and I would say like I Yeah, I struggle with it. Um, and I struggle with like, how do we balance that responsibility? Well, um, Especially when we know there there are not that many other places that a lot of folks can go Um and experience what they can experience here. It's very very difficult I

Rex H: know I I know somebody that was working at the library also at the time in ballard and [00:56:00] She, she struggled with that too.

Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. Had a

Laura H: hard time. It's tough. I, I'm like how do we get upstream of that so that Our expectations for behavior are clear enough that we never have to get there, right? And how do we then build relationships with people so that I can understand, like, Oh, you're creeping close to that line.

How do I help in a way that is respectful to you and, um, reflective of who you are as an individual? How do I help de escalate that or, like, get in Allows

Rex H: you to pivot.

Laura H: Yeah, totally, so that we can avoid that, right? And that we can all kind of, um, yeah, we don't have to get to that point.

Rex H: What, what haven't we talked about that you want to share about the Seattle Public Library?

Laura H: Oh, gosh, um, that's a good question. I guess one thing I was like, oh, what am I going to say if Rex asks me? me, like, what can people do? You know, what can people in the community do to, like, support the library or get involved in this kind of work? Um, and so I think one thing that I would, um, that I would [00:57:00] say is come and visit us, regardless of whether you're housed or unhoused, um, whatever your, you know, whatever your situation is, come and visit us and talk to staff about what it is that you're curious about, um, and help us make this place more reflective of our community.

Um, we really want to hear from folks and, um, we really welcome that participation. It's an organization that really works on participation by the community, so Do that and, and come. And if you're curious about our work, get in touch. We'd love to talk to you if you work at an organization.

Rex H: Yeah. So there are a lot of volunteers that volunteer at the, at the library or there

Laura H: are a few established ways to volunteer at the library.

Like homework help is one. Um, we also have an adult tutoring program. Um, so there are a few ways like that. Um, but then I'd love to just talk with folks about other things that they have in mind, or we're always open to like. I'd like to hear this author, or I have an idea for a program, so we have So basically

Rex H: engage.

Laura H: Yeah, engage. This place [00:58:00] works best if we're all sort of chipping in what our unique perspective is, right? Um, on behalf of the community as a whole.

Rex H: After finishing the interview with Laura and thanking her for the very informative discussion, I spent a couple of additional hours in the library trying to take in the culture being created there.

I sat in a number of different locations, watching and listening to people, which included taking part in several conversations. The community hub feeling that Laura spoke of was beautifully happening. I met Anna. She was about my age, originally from California, now living in one of the women's shelters here in Seattle.

She told me how she had lived her life not doing what she wanted to do, that she was trying now to find out what that was. She said with a broken smile, I'm on an adventure to figure out who I am. She then told me she loved the library, that everyone [00:59:00] was friendly to her, even the security guards. I met Kevin and his dog, Baby Boy, outside by the entrance.

When I asked him what his thoughts were about the library, he said, This library is a godsend for me. No other place allows me to feel this welcome, especially since I have a dog. When saying goodbye to Kevin, a woman that I had seen earlier inside, walking around in socks with no shoes, walked past me and sat on the ground.

She had been told to leave for not having shoes on. I walked up and offered her some socks that I carry in my backpack. She asked, Why are you offering me socks? I said, well, I noticed you didn't have any shoes on, to which she replied, but you're not offering me shoes? Before I could answer, she said, sit down, let's talk about it.

You Know Me Now is a project [01:00:00] under the non profit Facing Homelessness. It is produced, written, and edited by Tomas Bernatsky and me, Rex Holbein. Please join us on our very active Facebook pages, Facing Homelessness and You Know Me Now, where you can join in on the conversation. A heartfelt thank you to Laura for sharing so openly with us, and to all of you for listening.