Hello everyone. Before we begin, Tomas and I want to give a heartfelt thank you to all of you for listening. If you're here for the first time, we want to say welcome and thank you for being here. We are grateful for your curiosity and interest in these human stories. If you are a repeat listener and have appreciated getting to know the folks interviewed here, we want to thank you as well.

We'd like to ask all of you to consider making a small donation. You can do this by visiting our Patreon page found on our You Know Me Now website. As a non profit, we are 100 percent supported by folks just like you. Okay, let's get started. This is a safe place. So, what I mean by safe place is If you got a problem with somebody, walk it off and talk it off to us.

And let us handle it. If you start handling your own problems, then you're not making it a safe place. It's our job to handle the issues between you folks, and to separate, and to talk calmly, and to not posture, not have to put on airs, not have to fight something you don't have to fight, not have to pull weapons.

Those kind of things are not okay. Uh, when one person has to put up, another person puts up. And we know what goes on when that happens, and we don't like that. So everybody that's been here a minute knows, violence is not okay. Also, I heard some words falling out of some people's mouths the other day. Uh, what else is not okay?

With any kind of language that is, uh, racist, sexist, violent. Insightful. Any kind of ism. So, please remember, if something falls out of your mouth, that you aren't willing to own up to and take back immediately, those are two things that will walk you out these doors immediately. I'm so sorry to say that.

Violence, theft, and any kind of prejudism that you are not willing to man up to, own up to, and stop immediately. If you want to get yourself behind some kind of feelings, That is okay. You just can't do it here because we've guaranteed and talk all the time about having a safe place. I want you guys to have a safe place when these doors close at night.

So, please remember that. I will be having a couple private conversations with people just to ease the tension. Nobody's in trouble. I just want people to realize that we really do care about everyone's safety, not just one person's safety. Don't escalate things when things happen between new people. If you can be that friend to a new person, please do it.

You guys have been here a minute. You know how to do it. You know how to pull somebody aside. Don't be a tattletale. Be a friend. Okay? I'm Rex Holbein, and welcome to You Know Me Now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community. In these episodes, I want to remind all of our listeners that That the folks who share here do so with a great deal of vulnerability and courage.

They share a common hope that by giving all of us this window into their world, they are opening an increased level of awareness, understanding, and perhaps most importantly, a connection within our own community. On today's episode, I sit down with Ren and Adam, the co founders of the Outsiders Inn. I met them eight years ago.

At that time, Ren and Adam were living in the basement of a house where the owner, a deacon in the church, let them be there for next to nothing. He also allowed them to care for friends that were struggling through homelessness. This included being okay with tents and several small shelters being built in the backyard, as well as folks living in their cars parked along the street.

All of these people. We're receiving care and simple services provided by Adam and Wren. In those early days, everyone knew it was only a matter of time before the city of Vancouver, Washington, would shut it down. Their story is one of against all odds success, which now has them running their own non profit, employing 42 people, all providing necessary services for those in need.

Now, having said that, here is the really earth shakingly beautiful part. Are you ready? Every single one of those 42 employees was formerly homeless. How beautiful is that? And, how are they doing this? In the simplest of terms, they're putting relationship and connection first. Leading with compassion, understanding, and patience.

They truly see the value in every person and work to bring it to the forefront. There is clarity in the rules and boundaries, along with a deep understanding of how to navigate difficult moments that comes with a population often traumatized. Where does that understanding come from, you might ask? Adam and Wren will tell you it comes from being in relationship.

Being close enough to know and feel the nuances, they see no differences or separation between those being served and those providing services that is peer support. Farren and Adam, that is family. Why don't you introduce yourselves first? Um, I'm Adam Kravitz and I'm with outsiders in. I'm Ren Atre, and I'm also with Outsiders In.

We're co founders of Outsiders In org in Vancouver, Washington. And there's a lot that you've been doing, and I'm so excited to get to that. But first, let's, let's talk to both of you about who you are. Well, I'm a I was born in Indiana, raised in Texas, and then raised my children in Wichita, Kansas. And then found my way out to the west coast in this later chapter of my life.

Nice. And how was your childhood? Did you have a happy childhood? You know, we did. Sometimes in the moment we were along for the ride and in the changes that were happening, um, in my own parents life, uh, my parents were business people. And so we had to kind of be brave to change spaces and try, try the next thing.

So when you say business people, you mean like they were forever starting up new businesses and I think my father was in sales and so sold insurance and houses and kind of followed the market. And, um, he was, he was willing to, uh, provide for his family the way he knew how. And so he was, uh, he was a strong guy.

Uh, No, we had, we had a good relationship, but, but didn't realize how unstable sometimes that, that moving was. And it got us the, uh, bravery, so to, to try again and to, uh, start a new school and to go into a new area. I think moving it was destabilizing, but at the same time it was also, we didn't take it as, as serious.

Yeah, that in general in general. I think it sounds like you had a good childhood. Okay, it gave us a yeah We had the courage to try new things. Yeah, nice and Adam, how about yourself? I was born in Los Angeles I have had an older brother my dad and Me and my older brother. He left my mom and And then met another woman and we moved across country to Michigan They had two additional kids so we had a blended family From the very earliest age, there was a lot of abuse between, with my first mother and then, and then a lot of abuse and violence throughout most of my childhood.

Um, we moved again to Colorado, uh, somewhere before, right before junior high. Yeah, um, I think, uh, there was a lot of moving, a lot of poverty. Camping in the summertime was normal because we were just looking for a new home, but for us it was camping at campgrounds in the summertime, but it was just very normalized, uh, to be searching for new homes.

Wait a minute, you, when you were a kid, you, you thought of being in the parks or in campgrounds as camping, but you were actually, was the family actually homeless? Oh yeah, the family was homeless on a regular. Like we would move and move to another city and camp until they found a new home. You know, and sometimes we didn't find a new home, we'd go to another campground in another city.

Uh, I think we've been in, I think I've been in about 32 states, um, just with the traveling and looking for cities to, to live in. And where we would be in the campground, parents would go to town and they'd come back with, you know, newspaper articles and other things. And it was, it was very normalized, uh, for us that, you know, traveling around and finding a new home, having a camper trailer.

Yeah. So that was, that was in the, you know, 70s and early 80s. Yeah. Not necessarily even aware that. That's not what all families do. No, that was normal. I thought it was normal. That's what people did. Yeah. Um, so, um, but then, uh, Obviously, with a lot of abuse and stuff in my family, five boys, a lot of rebellion, arrest, drugs started happening early on.

And so I eventually left early. I left when I was 16, ran away, hitchhiked across the country to LA of all places, you know, went to the beach, dah, dah, dah, managed to take care of myself for a summer down there, got a job and, and took care of myself and then made my way back up here where my family had moved to, to Washington and Vancouver.

Um, tried to, you know, do the not smoke pot and get the cleaners over and get a job, did all that for a little while, joined the Navy, um, got out of the Navy and, and then came back here, got in more trouble, you know, smoking pot, drinking and not knowing what I was going to do. But, um, I always had a job, I always worked, was always able to get an apartment or a room, normal for me to be in between apartments, just like I had learned from my family.

Um, but back then it was pretty easy to secure a place if you had a job. Um, so, um, I've always worked in the restaurant industry. My last time getting arrested when I was like 20 or 21, I believe, um, I settled down in Portland, met a girl, got married, helped raise somebody else's kid for a while, spent about 13 years kind of just.

Doing that life and restaurant life and you know filing for bankruptcy and all those kind of things you do in the in the 90s 2000s and 90s and um You know when I hear I that's not an uncommon story that you just shared right with your childhood But what is a little uncommon is this statement of but I always had work.

I always worked Where do you think that came from like where like if you were to think did you did your parents model that is it? Just something inside of you I mean, my dad was nothing else. He was him. He was violent and angry and a genius, but he always worked and he always so I knew early on that we had to work.

And so, yeah, that's what you did. That's what you did. And I knew that from the very beginning. So I at least learned that part of it. That that wasn't untrue. You know? Yeah, when you think of your childhood, is it, is there, is there trauma there that you still carry, uh, that you, you think negatively of or, or do you have, you have a place to put all that and you think of your childhood as.

How do you feel about this still being a good childhood? Well, I've never thought of it as good. I think that I spent a lot of my life so stuck in it and not realizing how damaging it was to me. I think I'm in a place now where I can keep it kind of tucked in the spot and I'm still working on healing.

So it's always going to be those parts of it that are always going to affect me. And then there's parts of it I think I, I, as I help others daily, I, it helps me to like heal. from some of that stuff. Just before Ren and Adam met, Ren was working through some difficult times of her own. Well, I was getting out of my own, uh, stint of homelessness.

I had, uh, traveled from Kansas down to L. A. to help, uh, a family member, uh, go through hospice, and after that, uh, I, I kind of ended up staying on the coast and my own life had changed and the kids had grown up and they've moved out, you know, like now what? Here I was on the, on the coast. And so I took the opportunity to drive up the coast with my dog in my van, but then kind of got stuck.

Stuck in the coast and and I I don't know it was nice to hear hearing things But I was in my own grief and my own changing and taking Instagram sorry own grief from well life change the the process of My, my own life with, uh, my family, with my kids and my previous marriage and just everything kind of unwinded and it was just not a, an easy change in, in life.

And so what is next? Yeah. So you're in this reflective processing state of making sense of it all. Yeah. It got to this point where I was really recognizing, um, I was just hanging out on the side of the road and looking at beautiful things, but at the same time, I was really just getting stuck. Fear, because it's like you start fearing the things that's outside of your van, and then the different people, and so I found, you know, it'd take me, you know, oh, a half hour here, and then before long, oh, I'm hanging out like for hours here before I can go into the Dollar Tree, so I'm really, I'm struggling here.

Ren ended up moving to the Portland, Vancouver area and got an apartment with her son. Around this time, she met Adam on an online dating platform, which led them to meeting up on New Year's Eve, 2014. It was not only the beginning of their relationship, it was the start for their Outsiders In project. It took us a long time before we actually solidified our relationship, probably a year and a half.

But we stayed working on our project. Yes, yes. Completely till and then swim at our project. Did you, did you have a, we knew like with probably within the first three, four months that this outsider's in was gonna, because she was like, let's build a website. And that was the thing is the Facebook page and the website.

I said, you, I said, if you wanna do a cause and, and the advocacy around it, and that's the one thing that I had really. Again, I dove into the internet stuff with, uh, bloggers and having conversations as he was being very vocal and advocate, you know, around the homeless and our experiences like, man, we should tell stories about this.

This is, you know, we're not alone. So when you two met online though, you, it sounds like you had an immediate bond or connection over advocacy and, and, and basically nurturing and caring for people that were struggling. I mean, I did speak about it a little bit, but I think there was a bond for a whole lot of other reasons because she, she, she She made me think about music and she made me think about things that I hadn't had a chance to like think about in a long time.

I think we were peer, peer supporting each other through coming out of this change in our spaces in our life. And that we were coming up to new chapters. And what was it that we wanted to do? To bond over who do we want to have as a friend and who do we want to have as work partners to To collaborate and um, yeah to be mindful of all that and you know a little bit I mean, I think that there's some of it that you have to give to the universe So you do get together and then as you said adam you start to transition into also some conversations about What you guys want to do and how quickly does that happen?

Outsiders Inn actually emerged and where did the name come from? Which is, I love it. It's easy. Well, for me, the idea was significantly implanted in my head long before I met Ren. I didn't know what it was going to be called, but I knew I was going to do something. Uh, Outsiders Inn was born one out of the love of the book, The Outsiders.

And, and the early on understanding of, of the us and them, um, when there, there really was no different. And I learned that at a very young age with, like, with that book and a lot of other books. But, um, then living the life of, you know, being on the streets and really seeing the division. And knowing that one of the goals of Outsiders In was always going to be about changing perception.

You know, and then the INN is just for the vision of knowing that we're going to have a place or we're going to be some, but we're going to be an entity where we're going to be welcoming people in like an inn. And, and I think I heard you say earlier that all of those thoughts and feelings came pretty quickly with the two of you coming together.

None of this could not, could have happened the way it's happened without you. Us meeting and both of our different passions and our skill set, like just meeting and I almost want to say like a, like a volcano. And, and when he, when you started sharing the story, I was like, well, let's, let's package that.

Let's, let's put that on a, at least a Facebook page and have a conversation about it. I, you know, I've seen other, uh, people put together stories, you know, humans of New York and, and I had even seen, you know, facing homelessness and, and some of the, uh, the early stories, uh, Starting to recognize that sharing the stories was the important part to recognize that there wasn't a lot of difference between us and them.

And that was one of the lessons that I had learned while I was in my vehicle. That I was, you know, parked away and somebody didn't get to see me. They didn't get to see me reorganizing my story. The back of my vehicle, but then the person that was trying had a backpack and that they were trying to sit on the side of the building and open up and go through the backpack.

They were, uh, they were asked to leave. And, and I was just like, in those moments that I recognize how much privilege I had to be able to be in my vehicle, but there really wasn't any difference to what I was utilizing this. Um, and so I'm going to talk a little bit about, um, what they were using the space about, and what they were utilizing the space about.

Am I homeless, or am I just a traveler with my dog, and I'm, you know, I'm trying to look together, and, but is there, is there any difference? No, there really isn't, and, and how do we navigate what those next steps are? What do we do next? It becomes even harder of a reach. Those were the stories that we were bonding over.

And it was like, I had a desire to somehow pull it together in a space. And so that was the, I said, well, let's, Let's, let's do create a non profit. Let's do it. We were inserting ourselves in any meeting that had to do with homelessness. Um, we were talking to a lot of people. We had met some church people.

Um, we were starting to get, like, noticed and invited to, like, who are these people with these voices? You know, we'd go to city hall meetings and You were showing up. We were showing up. Um, and then we also got involved in a lawsuit that was building against the county. Uh, first wrong with people's homeless belongings.

I was the lead plaintiff and I was helping get more plaintiffs and we had like nine of us that were building a lot that was had a lawsuit against the county. So that was getting a little bit of attention too. Um, and then, uh, we also had got an opportunity to start doing the abbey. And explain the Abbey.

It was a house. It was a, uh, a deacon who had an unpermitted property that you couldn't live on, but would let us live there and do our ministry, uh, and he would support us with cheap rent. He had a big heart and he just, you know, sure, he was, he had that, that can do, uh, attitude. And, and he was making it happen too.

You know, some people, it's You're able to use the property in a certain way and it goes and then before long you have, uh, too many. And then you have to make sure that it's, that it's done right. And that's, and that's kind of the part of the things that we really did learn through a lot of his lessons is that, well, why, Can't you just do it this way?

Cause a lot of times you want to answer these questions and these problems with, well, why don't you just do this? And, and there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons between finances and, and permitting and, uh, neighborhood expectations. And, uh, there's a, there's a big process to, to have a successful project in the end, but it's, it's also, you learn a lot on the underground ones to learn along the way.

And I think one of the things that. And that is true. And I just know this from jumping into starting facing homelessness is that you don't need to know the answers to start, right? Because if you wait for all the answers, chances are you won't start. So part of it is just jumping in and then finding the answers and willing to be fixed.

Learn the whole way through. And we learned that in the beginning because I mean, part of the reason that we got involved with the deacon at the donated Abby was that. Um, at that time, there was this insurgent across the country to, um, Hey, I have some lumber, and I have some wheels and stuff, and I know how to build a little tiny house on wheels for people.

And they were not little tiny houses, they were little tiny Huts, um, some in the shape of dog houses, some in the shape of little castles. It was just a wide variety, tool sheds, igloos, you name it. But there was this, there was a surgence of these people being built and given to them on the streets. And then they were being put in people's property.

And then people were like, how do I manage this person in this little hut? And so then, Brandon and Adam came along and were like, well. Stop trying to manage the person. Let's just, you know, we have an idea. And then Deacon Dave said, I have two huts on my property. The law says they can camp over here. And, and there's these people camping in a car.

Would you, if you guys could live in my basement. You know, it's not legal, legal, but if you want to, I'll give it to you for cheap. And we were like, that's kind of how it started. That when you two moved in together. So when you started that, it was, it was just you two managing the property in the house, right?

Living in the basement and you had the little hut in the back and then you had some tents. Well, at our peak, we had about 10 to 11 people at times. We actually had. Three huts, a couple car campers, and then a couple people that would pitch tents, but they'd have to have the tents tore down by the morning time.

Um, so that was kind of at our peak, but on a regular we had six to eight people. Um, some of the, one of the people that lived in the huts had, you know, some very significant mental health issues that we really had to learn and struggle around. I, there were so many lessons that we learned in that year and a half with that project.

Um, are about boundaries, about how to manage, how to manage without control. Which is a big deal. That's a, that's a book right there. Yeah, and, and, and, cause you, you know, once you take control of something you don't have control of, then there's a power struggle. And so we had to learn how to co exist. And be neighbors.

Uh, we had to learn how to see people in different ways, you know. Just cause someone's, you know, yelling at something in the air doesn't mean we know what they're yelling at. And once you spend time with community, you might actually learn what somebody might be yelling at. And then it makes all the difference.

How, how were you guys paying bills during that time? Um, we were both, both working as peers. Um, our bills were very minimal. We were living minimal. Our bills were minimal. He was charging us minimal. And I was still working on, um, website maintenance and gig, gig work. And then, uh, uh, starting to take on more peer trainings and Yeah, we were stepping into the peer work.

Were you providing services other than shelter, shower, companionship? Basically, you were creating a relationship in a small community. And that's the services we provide today. Yeah. You know, we provide community with all the needs and wants for stability, whether it be shower and laundry, you know, access to computer, um, and community, like safe, safe, supportive community.

That's, that's what we do. What we were building then, what we build now. And I think now, we, our, our programs have grown in their, in the ability to care connect and coordinate. It started with blankets and hand warmers and, and bottles of water and, and those, those are resources that continue to be, uh, coordinated every day.

You know, every year through now, but now we have them through the gates of the shelters and through the outreach teams, and we have a little bit more of a, uh, intentional way of going about it. Over the years, Outsiders Inn has grown and expanded quickly. They operate the St. Paul Lutheran Church shelter and two tiny home shelters called 415 and Outpost.

Additionally, they run a cold weather shelter, an outreach program, and mail service for anyone without an address. The organization currently has 42 employees, all who have lived experience with homelessness. Forty two employees that all have lived experience. Yes they do. Which is remarkable. You're unaware of anybody else doing that.

So, peer work, peer support and peer work has been around a long time and we want to give that the homage that it deserves. It's, you know, it roots back to the civil rights movement and survivors of mental health institutions. But peer work in homeless service providers, for the most part, is one You know, 1 to 25 ratio within an organization.

Um, so, and all founded, all ran, and 100 percent staffed Pierce Homeless Service Provider. Um, I don't know one of, another one in Washington State. And there probably are other ones in the country. But I imagine we're, we're far and few between. Yeah. And, and even the one out of the 25. Tends to get marginalized, right?

Like co opted into the organization as, you know, just another case manager. Yeah. Yeah. Ish. So three shelters, 42 employees, all with lived experience, peer relationships. How, how do you manage that? Explain what the, what the process looks like of navigating that many employees for you guys? Well, the peer model is really about, um, Empowerment, self determination, uh, trust, communication, you know, really living a transparent and holistic life with boundaries.

I mean, the hiring process is pretty open. Our communication is wide open. We have team leads that are really dedicated to the cause and us. And they communicate well. I mean, the whole thing thrives on communication and honesty. And I, and I think, um, our, our history of having multiple site locations, and so each of the program sites have their, um, their own individual teams.

And, and kind of like our, uh, Our model works is they're, they're a small community. And so each, each location has the staff and the residents. And so each one of them have a care and a slice of responsibility for Upkeep of the space. There's community chores. There's, you know, people who, you know, are looking to have purpose and, and having that, um, hands on approach.

We have community gardens in the spaces. We have, you know, push brooms that need to be done and cigarette, but patrols and, uh, you know, things that just need to be handled to cleaning out the refrigerators. Restocking the toilet, you know, paper and so different people between staff and, uh, and residents, you know, they, they all pitch into the space because they, they recognize the, uh, The worth of it, it becomes a good, uh, community, uh, space and it is, it's a, it's a, it's a space that's mostly clean and people have got things organized.

And people have a lot of pride in their, in their communities. People enjoy that. And I think that that's part of the stabilizing force of, of being able to be in community that you encourage and empower each other in taking care of. Yourself and your spaces. Yeah. List for me what you think, what you can share are the, are the, you know, the strength and, and beauty of, you know, the peer model.

And what are the hurdles? I think the SAMHSA thing that everyone can heal. Everybody can heal and do better. But it, you know, that there's a process to this. The SAMHSA definition of recovery is what she's referring to. I just wanted to make sure. Yeah. The SAMHSA definition of recovery really is Everybody, everybody can, everybody can heal.

And, you know, over time and, and intention that everybody can, can improve and, and heal. Through whatever it is that they are struggling, because sometimes it feels very hopeless. Everybody can heal from those dark spots. And if we empower them, you know, then we open that door to healing. We absolutely do.

And I, and it just takes sometimes just one person and one connection and that one hand hold to, to get you up and out of those, uh, you know, those really deep, dark places. And so whenever we're able to make community. And, uh, encourage each other and then empower people to, to make choices and, and to have autonomy to, well, what is it that you would like?

And then really get to encourage them on that journey. I think that there's a lot of healing that happens and, and it's the healing that, that is needed. I think sometimes people often say, You know, this idea of housing first and let's just get you into a place, which is, which is not, you know, I, it's not part, it's important.

It's part of the puzzle, but then there's also that, that sometimes these spaces can be also very isolating and that to understand how to communicate with neighbors and, and how to be okay with, uh, people around is, is a big thing for people who have been disconnected. Yeah, I love all of what you just said.

And it flies in the face of so much of what we do in our society is based on a throwaway concept, right? It's not working. Just throw it away. And I think, you know, we see that in homelessness a lot, right? Throwing away people. They're not fitting in. They're not working. You know, for whatever reason, because of their trauma or because of a list of reasons, right, that they're just not fitting in, let's just throw them away.

And I love that, you know, you say everybody can heal and move forward, right? Given the space and time, and I think that some folks are more ready to go through that process than others. But you also, as the person on the outside of that, you don't know if it's tomorrow or ten years. So, you know, just, you have, you have, I think you have to trust that it's going to, it's there.

You just don't know when. What are the strengths and, and, and what other hurdles of hiring folks with lived experience? It's an absolute must to do this work. So, um, that's the strength. The strength is you need to hire people who've experienced what your guests have experienced. And this is an obvious, but I'm going to ask you to say it, is why is that important?

It's, it's a must because for those of us who've experienced this, there's a certain amount of credibility that comes with, you know, no one, no one knows what I've been through. Unless you've been through it. So, um, I have experienced case managers who won't look me in the eye. I've experienced, um, shelter providers who don't know a single thing about me.

And don't care. And, and, so At least the minimum I would like is that when people walk through the doors that they know that, um, the people that are serving me have just a little bit of an idea of what I've been through. And just a little bit. It's the credibility that means you look me in the eye, you talk to me a little differently, you call me by my name.

There's a familiarity that comes with it. Sure. We can even swear together, or we can even like joke together because we're already brothers or sisters just by looking each other in the eye. Yeah. All those, uh, infinite number of nuances. Right. You can't even, it's on, yeah, you can't even really speak to it as much as to just understand it.

Like, like my, my folks don't have to say they've been there and done that. Half the time I meet somebody new and I go, you know, all my staff is like, yeah, I know. You know, how did you know? I just knew. And, and that, that, that's gold to me. It's like, okay, we're doing everything right. If this person felt so comfortable that they were among family and friends, that's beautiful.

The other strength is like that this continuity among staff. It's like all my staff have this common bond and then we have broken down the barrier between us and them. That actually made my hair on my arms go up. That is beautiful. Right, so we're teammates in our experience and then we're also, we're, we're among a village, we're among community, among the residents.

Because the residents, we're like, there's no us and them, we're just a little further along the path. So, it so breaks down like so much of the work. That has to get done because the work can't get done until we get to the truth and the truth is never going to come out until somebody is safe. What's, what are some of the weaknesses is that both residents and staff, they take a long time to trust that they're safe.

And we can tell you over and over and over again, you're safe, but sometimes we, We're not going to believe that. We've heard that over and over and over again. And so we're going to continue with bad habits. We're going to continue, you know, with our, you know, our self talk, our, our, our self esteem issues, our, you know, needing to, you know, really vent and talk and be truthful and have support with, whether it's internally or externally, but, you know, people who are not seeking support and are having a hard time, like, getting to the truth.

That's, that's probably our biggest struggle. Because, like, in a work environment. People aren't as forthcoming as they would be, like, in our community environments. We're like, hey, this is going on, I don't mind telling you, but then in a work environment, like, you know, teammates want to keep secrets and, and people want to keep secrets, and it's like, no, we want to deal with panic attacks or, you know, significant mental health issues or substance use issues the same way we would deal with our guests.

Like, what can we do to support you? How can we get you through this? This doesn't mean you're losing your place, it doesn't mean you're losing your job. Can anybody ever lose their job? Or do you just hang in there and work through it? Depending on the level of honesty, willingness to take, do what it takes, the same thing we would ask anybody, and time.

So we have, we have worked through people, um, that have gone through relapses, we've worked through people that decide into needing some time off and need to go and come back. Leave of absences. We have leave of absences and honestly, we can pause things. I mean, we, we support a big group of frontline workers and, and I think in the same area, we try to make sure that there, are they, are they connecting with some of our wellness benefits or, you know, we, we.

We have a partnership with the YMCA and we say, you know, have you gone swimming? Have you gone and just, you know, hung out and done some exercise and self care. And, and I mean, I know it sounds always cliche, but I mean, honestly, the more that we can involve ourselves in, into that self care, whatever that looks like to each individual person, that, that it is, it is helpful on that holistic sort of way.

And so really just making sure that we have communication with them and That they, that they're empowered to, to do that. I think any group of people trying to connect to what their next chapter is and what the next level of responsibility is, I think different people take it differently. We have some guidelines and then we have a lot of grace and then we try to make sure that we're all rowing in the same direction.

I think we've got a really good group of folks that, uh, are, are, they like their, their job. They like the space that they're a part of creating. They feel that, that purpose. Part of that, uh, journey of recovery and healing is, is that there's a point that you want to give back and that you want to share what you've learned.

They're the embodiment of hope and of that, you know, so if you, if you've done that, maybe I can do that. And we've actually had some folks that have, are in our, in our, That have been in our programs have gone through the program and then come back and say, I'm ready to, to apply to, to, to maybe do that too.

And so I think it, it gives people, um, some hope to recognize that the, the, the difficult work and the journey of learning that it has been wasn't, wasn't for nothing. Yeah, it wasn't for not. And, and that, that it has some sort of value in. In not just their life and their journey, but it can be in a bigger idea of our community's journey because a lot of us have been, have gone through this, uh, economic crisis that is, uh, has affected our community.

The stability of our communities. I mean, we've we've been priced out of things. We've been pushed out. We've had you know what those choices are have been limited. And there's a lot of people that when faced with those big. Um, changes and challenges, you know, some of us make good decisions and some of us don't make good decisions and it takes a while to learn through the lessons of growing up, the more that we can continue to use our, use our resources to, to help both sides of that, you know, it's, you know, that there is no difference between us and, you know, but we're just might be a little further along in our journey and that we might have some things that we can improve.

Share with you that we've learned. Yeah, you know the beautiful thing too in that conversation that that I really like is this bit about being further along in the journey Like we have, we have an infinite number of lines radiate, radiating out from us, right? And so on this journey of employment and housing, you might be further along, but maybe in this other journey of compassion to animals or connection to nature or, uh, engineering mind or art, you know, then, then you might find yourself, you know, further back and the person that you're talking to may be one of the residents is further along in that journey.

So we, we tend to only look at the journey of, you know, in a capitalistic viewpoint, you know, like, Hey, how much money are you making? You know, can you afford, uh, that house, that car? Um, but, but that's not the worth of a human being. Not at all. Not at all. What are some things that you have learned, uh, from from the people that you get to work with, like staff and residents.

But the reason I'm asking that question is I think that's a, that's one of the gifts that wait for people that just sits there and waits for people that are in, in houses when they, when they begin to engage with folks that have lived experiences, that there are so many lessons there. I've learned to be more patient.

I've learned to be more forgiving, to have grace. I've learned to, Give up control and, and let hear, hear as much as possible. I've learned to trust. I've learned to ask for the truth and, and, and listen. I think trust is a big, is a big part of it. Cause there's no way that we would be able to this on our own.

We've got a lot of people that have got a lot of skill that they bring to the table. Um, trusting ourselves in, in, in the choices that we've made with, within those staff members. One of the big things that I've learned is to never, uh, never be surprised to be surprised. Oh, you've seen this before. You've heard this before.

You create your, your own, uh, ideas of how this is probably going to go. And, and people really will never, never not surprise you. For me, meeting folks that have, you know, over the last 13, 14 years, meeting folks outside, Is it constantly reminds me to stop making assumptions because they're all just like always wrong.

I mean, people do surprise you and it's, it's the norm. Yeah. Um, what's, what's the future look like for outsiders in? You know, we have, uh, three, three full time shelters, a fourth shelter in the wintertime, an outreach program, and mail service. So that's how we manage the 42 people. Um, and our newest program, which we got a small grant to help support, is our housing stability specialist.

So we really want to take it to the next level. So many people, when they leave us, They're so sad to leave and we're unable to follow them due to contracts, so we've developed a, a, a temporary program so we can have some support to follow folks no matter what type of housing they go into, um, not just limited to people going to housing programs, but any type of housing and, and really just focus on how can we make sure that they're successful, stable, stable, stable.

That they have the tools that they need, they know how to mitigate problems, um, landlord communications, uh, being a good neighbor, all those different things that might somehow get people in trouble once they leave a shelter. That's, and, and does that include staying connected to this community, uh, of Outsiders In?

We would say, a lot of folks when they leave our communities, they automatically come back. That's just normal, but now we want to be able to have permission to go visit them, and see them, and, and then help them mitigate issues, whether it's cleaning issues, hoarding issues, whether it's not communication, maybe they just don't like their neighbor, but they're great neighbors, but they don't like their neighbor, their neighbors mean, maybe we can help with that.

It's not always. That our residents are going to have issues, but maybe just integrating into a new community, it might be issues, and we want to be that peer support person that's going to come, that's in between, that can be the mediator, that can be the support, and maybe there's some funding that was needed, maybe it's furniture, maybe it's quality of life, whatever it is, we want to go there and visit people and be able to say like, Okay, we don't want to leave you hanging, we want to make sure you're successful here too.

Yeah, it's not just, okay, see ya, good luck. And remember, I'm always eyeing every potential CELTA guest as a potential employee. So the more we're going into people's homes, and see if they can run their home, and you know. Yeah, yeah, but, but, but, but yeah, but yes to that too, right? Because that's, that's how the world works, right?

Like if you can move forward. And you're proving yourself being able to take on something actually with more responsibility. There's no reason that any community member needs to be isolated and, and not able to find some sort of purpose and, and what's, what's next for them and what, what would they like to be involved in?

I mean, that's part of having a healthy community is having, you know, a healthy community around you and connections. That means you're not leaving anybody out there. If you look at the traditional model of shelter, Where people are congregate, non congregate, doesn't really matter. Case manager, one out of thirty five people, you see your case manager once every week maybe.

Barely know what's going on. Eventually you get pulled for some kind of housing, you get a housing program, and you're, okay, thirty percent of your income, you're out, you're in a new place, you might have somebody come visit you once a month, if that's part of your program. So you're kind of like left with, I have this place to take care of.

When people come to our community. We're talking every week about chores. We're talking every week about who did what on the toilet seat. We're talking every week about, like, what, how come people can just walk in the gate. We're talking about how come people aren't following curfew. We're talking about good neighbor things every week as a community, like a family would.

And so, um, and we go through hard times. We go through bad times. So and so was yelling and screaming last night. We talk about that. We talk about celebrations. So and so got their award. We're all celebrating when graduations happen. People all get to say really cool or nice or inspirational things to the person that's graduating.

So it's like, so when people go into the new house. From our programs, they have heard over and over again, stuff about toilet seats and stuff about chores and stuff about cleaning the fridge out. You know, if they spent any time with us, they've spent, they've, they really got to like dive into life skills and at least.

It's been planted in their brain, so then when we come and visit them and we say, Hey, we talked about this. It's not like I'm some stranger coming to tell them they need to clean their apartment. I'm some friend that says, Hey, we've talked about cleaning. I remember when your unit was like that, you know, and remember what you did then?

And you can do this, right? We can do this, right? And we can pull out because this is a common occurrence or an event we've been through together already. Well, yeah. You're in relationship. Yes. It's just, it always comes back, right? It does. To a relationship. Yep. What would you say to people that are in the housed community that don't have any connection to the homeless in any, really in any way?

And it's pretty easy to do, right, in our world. You can, you can leave your house, get in your car, drive to work, go to the store, get home, and pretty much steer clear if you, if you choose to. What would you say to those folks? It's not as, is not as distant as we can make it. I think sometimes we were able to avert our eyes and to, to just stay in the The small circle of things that we have influence on, but it's real.

We do create our own house and our own yard and peace in behind our fence. And then, you know, kind of like in our own neighborhood now soon to be 300, you know, plus homes, not too far away. And then there's a lot of people are like, Oh, they're, they're, they worry about the extra population. They worry about what's that going to do for the roads.

And, and those are valid questions. But at the same time. You know, are we prepared to say yes in my backyard? Are we prepared to, uh, to go through the changes of what that is? Or are we going to be just the, the person who is complaintive about it? Because it's, I'm going to be uncomfortable for everybody in a different way, but are we going to, uh, be complaining about it?

Or are we going to lean into it and to say, but we do need more housing. And a lot of this. It's crisis has been driven through stock of housing and then because of price things. And so if, if, if one of the answers is to make housing available, then we're going to have to build more of it. And we're going to have to say yes to that in our backyards, in our, in our policies and in our, you know, the fabric choices, the built fabric is, has to change.

That's a foregone conclusion. Yeah. We're not gonna be able to think of our neighborhoods exactly like we've always seen them and grown up with them. No. There's, there's too much of a housing shortage. I think, I think our community has, uh, it's, it's heart in the right place. They recognize that this is a complex situation, that it's intersecting, it's economic, it's housing stock, but then it's also, you know, You know, we do have a crisis on, uh, opioid crisises and, and everything just kind of intersects in this area that, well, how can we keep everybody safe and how can we address things in a way that it might not have been the way we would have addressed it 20 years ago before the days of fentanyl.

And now we have to come up with some different ideas on, on what that might look like. It's frustrating, but at the same time, it's also hopeful to see our community try to lead with its heart and, uh, and come up with, uh, compassionate solutions. If the whole community felt like the both of you felt, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I mean, I really do think it's all addressable. It's just, we have to get everybody involved on the same page, right? To see the human being in front of them, rather than all the impact that, that their life, which is struggling. is now putting on to a person that, that, you know, is living inside. And I think we have to get past that.

So if we're speaking to folks that homelessness doesn't touch their lives very often, if, but briefly, um, I would want to encourage people to really educate themselves about the problem nationwide, not just in their city, but really look at the increase from 500, 000 to probably 750, 000 just in the last couple years.

That, that it happens in more, in the richest places more than in the poorer places. Look at the trends and look at, educate themselves. I would ask people to really educate themselves first and foremost. Secondly, um, the stigma, the, the, the rhetoric is only going to get worse when it comes to saying that folks are just, they're just doing drugs, they're just doing this, they're just doing that.

Um, the, the fentanyl epidemic is, is, is, is affecting us as homeless folks, is affecting us drastically. But, the fastest growing populations are youth and folks on social security, so, again, educate, I would ask people to really educate themselves. People don't spend enough time on their sidewalks. Folks don't spend enough time walking.

Folks don't spend enough time outside. But they sure have a lot to say about it. You know, I've walked all the sidewalks, and I, I know, and I know who walks the sidewalks, and it's, it's far and few between. It's the people in cars with their five seconds of judgment going by. If you really want to know, um, immerse yourself with an organization that allows people to come to the organization and, and meet folks, and, and go serve somewhere, go volunteer somewhere, go really educate yourself about who are we.

And, you know, take a walk, or take a walk with someone who knows, or, you know, Just like you did, go say hello. I mean that's, it all starts with just really humanizing people and realizing that homeless, homelessness is not a problem. These are humans that are experiencing homelessness that really need to be acknowledged.

When I became homeless, I immediately became other people's judgment when nothing had really changed about all the qualities that I had had prior to me becoming homeless. I was, you know, I was an experienced restaurant manager. I was, you know, I had been married. I had all this, I had all these things that I could speak of.

But once I became homeless, I was that homeless guy. I was that dirty guy. I was that guy in the dumpster over there. And, you know, no, I wasn't. I was still Adam with all those same qualities, but I had to live outside because it's Because of the circumstances that happen. And primarily, most of the time, the circumstances are economic.

Divorce, raising rents, an accident. For me, it was a combination of three things. And then it was, you know, depression on top of that. Because I'm, I can't believe I have to live outside. I can't believe I'm sleeping under a bush. You know, the, just, you know, who wouldn't be immediately, You know, and morbidly depressed about your situation when you lose everything.

Well, especially if the community is also looking down on you now. Right. Every single person you can't walk in any door without being looked at. I hope and pray that like a lot of the work that we did over the last 10 years has really helped to change Vancouver's culture that, that, um, that allows for that camping that you see today.

Because 14, 10 years ago, There was no camping allowed anywhere and police would immediately arrest you if you put up a tent, you know, so maybe we had an influence on that and I like to think and maybe this has an influence on other people that they're really going to go out there and just realize we are no different than you, we are just people that circumstances happen to and that and and that and then we have to recover from that and help others.

Yeah.

Relationships between the homed and the homeless are for the most part missing in our cities and communities. We have created an us and them understanding of the issue, supported by the negative stereotype. If we are going to successfully address homelessness, we need to begin by being in relationship with each other.

When we do this, our understanding of the other person's story changes. We begin to see the nuances of the struggles and achievements, giving us understanding, empathy, and trust in the person across from us. That trust in each other is the foundation of a healthy community. Thank you, Adam and Wren, for building that trust at Outsiders Inn.

You Know Me Now is a project under the non profit Facing Homelessness. It is produced, written, and edited by Tomasz Biernacki and me, Rex Holbein. Please join us on our very active Facebook pages, Facing Homelessness and You Know Me Now, where you can join in on the conversation. A heartfelt thank you to Wren and Adam for sharing so openly with us Facing Homelessness.

And to all of you for listening.