First, I'm just going to read the post. Wow. Okay. I haven't gone back. I've, it's funny, all the things in my head over the years since 2015, right? Uh huh. Almost 10 years ago. I know. Um, but it's remained very fresh in my memory because it was such a, it was such a poignant, beautiful moment, um, that you and I got to journey together through.

Oh, okay. But I'm going to be cringy about what I said. Well, you know, I think the beautiful thing about this story is you started at one place and you ended up at another. Yes. And I still Go up and down. Go up and down. And I think that's totally the way it is, right? Yeah. For everybody. Okay, so I'm going to read this real quickly.

It's a page, but. Okay. It's titled, Village People. So, this was originally posted on the Facing Homelessness Facebook page on July 8th, 2015. Here it is. We are all village people looking for community, for connection, for a place to belong so that we can live good and do good. Please meet Tyler, Obi, who is Tyler's man mom, Jen, and her daughter Willow in Boston.

They and Melissa, Pua, and Danny. All live in RVs parked between the Burke Gilman Trail and North Northlake Way in Seattle. I asked what brought them in their RVs all together, and they said, the police. They said they had all been harassed and that they felt some safety in coming together and forming a village.

One of the reasons the Seattle Police and the Seattle Parks Department get involved is that they get complaints from people living in homes, folks not wanting the RVs on their block, not wanting the issues of garbage or other issues that arise from basic living. We, as a larger village, need to reach out to those who are struggling with basic needs to provide kindness and service.

Here is a big ask. We're looking for someone with a pickup truck that can meet volunteers this weekend to load up and take away a truck full of garbage for this beautiful group of people. Facing homelessness will pay for the dump fee if someone can provide a truck. This small act of kindness will make a profound difference in easing tension between these fine folks living in RVs, the fine folks living in homes in the neighborhood, and the fine folks who work as our police.

In the Wallingford neighborhood. Rex. A week ago, my family and I ate at Ivars. There was a young lady at this RV campsite who very politely made room for my son to pass. Very sweet girl Charlie. Get some potted best to them. Best wishes. How can it look better? What do they really, really need? Rex, we need another safe plants.

My trailer is always available. Help out for these folks. I can make either either Saturday or Sunday. Hey Rick. Andrew and I would love to donate our time and our truck to help out. We're available Friday, if that works. We have a huge extended day for us this week. And we know first hand how difficult garbage is to dispose of right in Pennington.

Also, if you still have my number, feel free to contact me to coordinate. Could there be a legal hidden honey bucket nearby?

I'll probably get lambasted for posting this, but it's my opinion and it affects me and I'm entitled to it. I'm one of the fine people who lives in the neighborhood and who has called the cops on this illegal squatting colony of fine folks. The police are not harassing them. Please don't get it twisted.

These people, 15 plus RVs strong, are illegally squatting in public parking places. Business establishments and people who pay taxes to support those businesses are negatively affected. Ivar's, Westwind, and the marina across the street. It stinks to high heaven. Where are these villagers defecating and urinating?

Because I'd imagine they cannot afford it. The amount of garbage left behind by these fine folks is disgusting and disrespectful. I've ridden my bike along the Burt Gilman Trail towards the sculpture park, and it's the same thing there. And there's a tent along I 5 on the express lanes that has so much garbage, it's probably a crime.

It's disgusting. I do not want them squatting in the neighborhood. It's not fair to all of us who pay to live here. Before you go painting me as some elitist ass, I will share that I'm self employed for 16 years. I've fallen on hard times. I was able to borrow money from my parents, and I know not everyone is so blessed, but if necessary, I would have done anything to get work, to make money.

I donate and have served lunches at the YWCA for homeless women. I donate to Mary's Place. I have a friend living with me, for free, for the better part of the year. They would otherwise be out on the street. Our apartment building's trash bins have been routinely gone through, which is not a problem, but the garbage strewn around and the lids left up for the crows to get into is filthy disgusting and we've had enough.

It's okay for homeless people to strew garbage around where we live, but it's not okay for us to get angry about it? Our cars are near the bin, and one guy's car keeps getting banged into and dented by the homeless shopping carts. The building management had to pay money to construct a fence around it and then lock them up, which someone cut through, and now we finally got locking bins from the city.

Is it fair that we have to incur these costs? Why is it DOT's job using taxpayer money to pay staff to clean up after these fine folks, as you say? Why is it the responsibility of people in our neighborhood to do so? The amount of garbage along the Burt Gilman in this area has increased. Is it not our right to not live in a stinky pigsty?

They're illegally squatting on public property, and it's within our rights to call the police to make them move. I'd like to live for free in an RV on the streets of Seattle too, instead of paying 1, 500 in rent, but it's illegal! And, I've made different decisions along the way. I will continue to call the cops to get this to stop.

If you would really prefer to live for free in an RV instead of your lovely apartment, I'm sure that can be arranged. Most of the people living in RVs are working poor. Sorry, but I have a job. But as a one year resale manager, I can show you I have many more options for you. I'm proud of you for getting yourself out of your situation.

But I don't Thank you for sharing your point of view and no, you won't get lambasted on this page. This is a page, a community, that is trying to do something different. Trying to come to tough issues with love and not judgment. As said in the post, we're not judging the police, the neighbors, or the folks living in the RVs.

All this post was about was bringing community out to help with the garbage issue that they are faced with. This benefits everyone. Thank you again for sharing your feelings, hoping this can be the beginning of some good change. Thank you. I'd like to go with you when you go to help clean up, as I'd like to better understand because right now I'm just angry.

And as someone else posted on this thread, no, God, please do not hide a honey bucket in the area. Are you kidding me? I'm all for trying to come up with ideas, but squatting in RVs all over Seattle is not the answer. Sorry. I'm Rex Holbein. And welcome to You Know Me Now, a podcast conversation that strives to amplify the unheard voices in our community.

In these episodes, I want to remind all of our listeners that the folks who share here do so with a great deal of vulnerability and courage. They share a common hope that by giving all of us this window into their world, they are opening an increased level of awareness, understanding, and perhaps most importantly, a connection within our own community.

That's how it started. How we met. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I remember why I went to your page, but I don't remember exactly. Why did you go to the page? Um, well, I was living in Wallingford at the time and there was a lot of RVs along whatever that North, North Lake. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the clincher was, then there was a very big, um, school bus that came and parked like pretty close to where my apartment building was.

And I think I would just drive by and, you know, be judging and scoff and like, why are these people here? And da, da, da, da, da, da. I don't know. I posted something on my Facebook page. I have a pretty big, you know, following. And somebody told me about, I guess it was called Facing Homelessness. Tracy and I met nine years ago when she commented on the Facing Homelessness Facebook page.

Her sharing was, you could say, a tour de force of emotional outpouring. Today, I want to revisit that exchange because something important happened, something I believe is available to all of us and provides a path for moving forward when discussing difficult societal issues. Tracy's comments on the Facebook page were for sure ones of disgust and even anger towards those living homeless in her neighborhood.

They were not unlike the polarized back and forth emotional statements we often see in the world of social media. However, Tracy did something remarkable after sharing her comment. She remained open and willing to engage. Before we get to that though, I asked Tracy to tell us a little about herself. I mean, transplant from little town, upstate New York, self-employed.

What do you do? Can you tell us? Uh, yeah, I do, uh, a couple of things. Marketing research for my, you know, career since college, and then I, and I'm a party planner, event planner. So, and for yourself, your own business? Yes. Yeah, for like over 24 years. So pretty independent, I guess. Pretty opinionated. I do not have a problem voicing my opinion.

Yeah. You know, I would also kind of say I get kind of angry. Like today I was just noticing that I do. I have a lot of fire in me, which is good and bad. Right. And, you know, I love building community and bringing people together, you know, I love being social and, and throwing parties. I think I am pretty empathetic, but then I also can be judgmental.

Yeah. Yeah. So you've got a line somewhere within you that you draw that you say, okay, wait a minute. Yeah. That's, and then sometimes I can be quick to draw, um, I guess, judgments or opinions And, and then I'm not always right and I can admit, uh, I will, I might argue still or debate, you know, that point, but you know, I had like some of my best friends I didn't like at first.

Yeah. And vice versa, you know? Yeah. I, first I want to just compliment you on, on that ability to, to have strong feelings, to have judgments, but to remain open. To be swayed, which was how I described you when we first sat down before the recorder got turned on, is that I think it's a beautiful quality years of really being able to revisit it.

And I think it's at the heart of of what happened right on the North North Lake way, I was looking for a word, incident or event or experience. Was there a Tracy before the North North Lake way that's different from the Tracy today? Or did it have any lasting changes where I'm going to get to and how has it informed you like the Tracy of today?

Because we've, we've not only still have homelessness in this city. It's continuing to get worse, right? So if you took yourself back to prior to our exchange, what would you say were your feelings and thoughts about homelessness? Well, a couple of things. Like, I was always, supportive of, you know, homeless who, which is weird to say, looked a certain way.

And by that, I don't mean ethnically or gender or anything. It's, you know, like who doesn't want to help the, the family with the kids living in the car or the couple who, you know, lost their job, but. Um, yeah, I would cast judgment and I, and I will be completely honest. Still, you know, still do. It's like the wolf inside yourself that you struggle with all the time.

I feel, I feel most empathy for, I think people who I can tell are mentally ill and that scares me and I don't know what to do. Like I would never probably approach them because I would be afraid of. Maybe they are not of sound mind, and they might act out physically, or who knows. Um, but I just don't know how those people even survive, and I don't know what to do about that.

So I know that I have more judgments around people who, how do you explain, I mean, I mean, I don't know, like the other day I saw some guy and he's riding his bike and he's pulling another bike along and so then I have a storyline like he stole that bike. I mean, I don't know for certain. Does your judgment, when you say looking at someone that's going through homelessness, does your judgment jump up more when they look able bodied?

And should be able to, you know, pull themselves out of it. Is that what you're saying? Or, or, or is it just a certain, well, there are some times of that too. I guess when I see somebody who I, who visibly looks young and able bodied and you know, they'll be standing out with a sign that, you know, that does go through my mind about like, if you spent, yeah, I mean, complete.

So I. Yeah, like I'm just being really honest and I know that's what you want. I will say that this is a very beautiful thing about you, that you can sit there and share honestly. And I, and this is, I think this is one of those situations that If 100 people listen to you say that, I'll bet 98 of them, including myself, with all the experience of having met people, it still jumps up.

I think it's hard not to. But then I also want to go and, you know, I remember when I lived here and QFC, there would quite oftentimes be individuals there, you know. And I would ask them if they, I typically would not give them money, but I would buy them food. And I asked them if they'd want something. And, um, I feel like it's easier for me to be more humane about it.

If that's a weird way of putting it, when it's like I could possibly interact with that one person, like sitting outside QFC or someplace where then I can go in and actually get something for them. So, I mean, there's guilt that there's like, you know, there's empathy and then there's anger and then there's guilt for being judgy and angry and yeah, and then there's wanting to do something.

And then like, what can I do? And then there's just always going to be another homeless person to take over the homeless person that you, you know, bought lunch for. Yeah. Can I add something like, I mean, I've done a fair amount of international travel to developing countries and. We'll do like homestays with people and very poor.

So they're not homeless, but they're very poor. And I've said to myself, I'm like, why am I okay with poor people and helping people in like Nepal when I went or India. But then when I'm here, it pisses me off. You know, that's such a good question. Yeah. Yeah. I look forward to staying in the, you know, family's house in Nepal with a dirt floor and, you know, we, you know, that kind of thing, but here I do.

I, you know. It's like a trigger. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if like I've said, is it because you're afraid of being homeless? Is it, you know, do you have an answer to that? Do you know? Well, no, I don't fully know because I know I would never be homeless because I have really great parents who financially, if anything happened, could help you could help me.

And I know that many, many, many people do not, even my friends who, you know, are not homeless, they do not have great parents. So, and I, you know, some of the stories I can only imagine, you know, some people on the street. Yeah. I don't know. But as a business person too, I also come at it from that point of view, whereas if I did have, you know, a brick and mortar store, I wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't want a bunch of homeless people in tents all over the place.

Yeah. Like, what do you, I just don't. I agree with that. I can say, I know that I am judgy, was judgy, am judgy. I still feel that way sometimes. And then I, uh, so with compassion, like the two, Or the many more than two emotions and feelings can, can exist in your body and mind at the same time. Right? So I think that there's a lot of good people here who want to help homeless people, and then it just becomes overwhelming and the, and it is scary.

So there's not going to be a lot of people who are going to be riding their bike and just stop and talk to people. I love that you shared that you can hold those two feelings. Cause I think. That's also a little, um, confusing to people, right? And, and also how we define the world of homelessness outside of those that are homeless.

It's either you're for or you're against, right? You're either an activist or you're a heartless, you know, uh, capitalist or whatever, right? And I don't think that's most of the people. I, I really do think it's conflicted. In all of us, like, ah, what do we do? What do we do about this? I don't want to see people suffering.

And at the same time, I feel powerless to make a change. It's, it feels like a tidal wave crashing down on us. And then, you know, and then the city reply, you know, responds with measures that, that don't feel good, right? Maybe, maybe they feel good because we're not looking at the problem, but deep down it doesn't feel good because we know we haven't solved it.

I really do think it's just relationship. I really, I think if we were all in relationship, if we all had our Tracy moment, right, of coming closer and, and actually being brave enough to actually kind of act on that curiosity and that kind of inner feeling of, you know, this doesn't feel right and wanting to know more.

I think if we all did that and got closer, it would, our perspective would shift, right, and, and out of that would come, you know, Solutions that are not being talked about at this time, Tracy's varied thoughts and feelings in response to homelessness is something I believe we, in part, all have in common.

We can be touched by the raw humanity in one moment and in the very next, feel frustrated or even angry about the impact happening to us specifically. Or to the livability of our city. I don't know if you knew how I met that group. People complain, people make me complain. No, I don't, I don't have you to thank for that.

I was riding my bike on the Burt Gilman and they had pulled their RVs in a way that created kind of a little enclave, a little space. And so I, I was riding my bike past and I looked down and I saw about six or seven people congregated and they were having breakfast. And so I came all the way around, rode my bike up and came around the corner and I said, Hey, and right away everybody turned around and they go, Hey.

And I said, can I just sit with you guys for a bit? And they said, sure. And then somebody grabbed a chair and they pulled it up and I sat down. And Danny was sitting on a stool in front of a, of a grill. And he was making, they had bacon and he had a pancakes and, uh, and he said, here, I'll make you breakfast.

And, and, uh, and his hands were literally black with just grime and just gross. And I'm going, uh, no, it's okay. No, he goes, seriously. No hair. And he, he serves me up. He's picking everything up with his hands. And I, I'm thinking. I can't say no because it'll be rude, like, but, God, this is gonna be the grossest meal I've ever eaten.

Um, but, I was taken with how warm and friendly they were, and that led to a lot of really good friendships, um, with people in that group, and, um, and that's what that post came about. Came from while visiting Danny and his friends. I asked if I could also take photographs and with those images and a quick telling of their circumstances, I made a request of the community on the Facebook page.

Shortly after, Tracy posted her response comment that you heard at the start of the episode. While space was being given to her view and her feelings, things were heating up. So basically you, you make this initial post, you get a lot of. kind of instant on Facebook, on the Facing Homelessness Facebook page, you get a bunch of pushback.

You and I have a nice back and forth and you agree to come an hour, I think, and a half before the cleanup on that Sunday. Um, and I'd like to both of us just share our memories of that. Yeah. When you suggested coffee, and I said yes, because I guess there is that, okay, like quick to anger thing, right, that I admitted to, um, but then like, okay, once you calm down and you step back, I'm like, okay, I'll meet him.

But as I was driving up, I did in my head. Cause you know, I like to form stories and judgements, right? Oh, he's probably going to be some dippy long hair, dude. I recall driving up and seeing a little car, a little whatever, you know, little smart car and a lot of bumper stickers on it. Maybe there aren't a lot of bumper stickers, but in my mind there was bumper stickers on it.

Yeah, there was probably a just say hello sticker. Okay, and I said, I bet you that's his car. So I walk in and there you are. And you are, you're like little hippy dippy with your long hair to your shoulders. You're so nice. Um, I don't know. I remember saying to you when I stood up and you walked in, I said, Hey, hi.

Yeah. Do you want to start with a hug? Oh God. Okay. That's how it all started. Jeez. Well, that's been our back and forth ever since then. I'm like, Oh, you're going to hug me now? Like really? But you said, What did I say? Did I say? You said no. Did I? Yeah. You go, you said something like, no, um, I don't want to do that.

Okay. That's funny. All right. I was good. I was still all, I don't know how long from the original post when we met, do you know? It was probably a week. That was a week. Yeah. It was pretty quick. Yeah. Cause I posted for that coming Sunday. Okay. And then we would, we met that morning. And so I, I don't necessarily recall all of the conversations for one point where I said, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they, they want to be homeless or yeah, they want to live on the street. They want to be homeless. And you said, Tracy, nobody wants to be homeless. And I was like, well, you know, and that kind of came back to, um, when they were first doing the tent cities and Madrona, like long time ago, I did go out with my little camera thinking I was going to make a documentary film.

And I did talk to different people and there were, it was not The majority, but I do remember a couple of older gentlemen are like, we just hopped the train. You know, it was kind of like in 1900, you know, 10, we hopped the trains and we go from town to town. But yeah, I mean, if I was being really honest, those other people did not want to be homeless there.

Yeah. And we know that because Homelessness equals suffering. I know. And nobody chooses suffering. I know. What I also remember is, um, it was a really nice conversation. Like, respectful. Yeah. And both of us were sharing views back and forth. I think you had initially said, I'll come, but then some of the site comments basically got you that, I'm not, I'm not going to be involved in this at all.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and so the idea of meeting for coffee and chatting wasn't to then go. To, um, both of us to go help with the cleanup, it was just for you and I to get to know each other and, and, uh, share viewpoints and, and so, you know, an hour and a half quickly went by. We had a really good conversation and I said, kind of like, well, I didn't have a watch, but basically checking the time.

And I said, you know, I, I got to get going because the cleanup is going to happen. So, you know, it was really nice to meet you and all this and used and used up. You said, I'll go with you. And I was like, Wow. And I'm such a such a sappy person. But even me just saying that just now, I could feel my eyelids just my filling up a little bit with water because it was a powerful moment.

I mean, it was a big deal because it surprised me greatly. Like I was like, Wow, you know, that's amazing. You had gotten all this negative feedback. You had come on pretty strong with your initial post and now you're going to come and help. Well, I'd say all of that is due to you. So, I mean, you do, you know, you probably won't accept that, but I mean, if you hadn't taken the time, you know, and been able to kind of be, you know, some people were coming at me pretty hard on and hot on that.

And the fact that you were still in this kind of kind, peaceful place, it's kind of weird for me to receive that, but same time was obviously open to it. And, And, you know, I have always enjoyed doing service work. So I was like, well, if I'm going to open my big mouth and complain, I might as well, if I have this opportunity to go see it and help clean up too, you know, I might as well do it.

Yeah. I, I don't think I can take credit for it. I, I, well, here's the deal. You could have come and just. Had your ass hat on, but you didn't, right? Like you, you were really there to talk. Yeah. And I think the back and forth actually created that moment. And, and then I thought, as we're going there, I thought, well, she's just going to stand there with her arms crossed and every once in a while, pick something up and throw it.

But, No. Yeah, you, you were working as hard as anybody maybe. Maybe the hardest. You were carrying massive shit to the dump truck. We had arranged to be there and I, yeah. Some other people from the community. So tell me a, like, tell me a little bit more about, you're walking to the cleanup and I know this was nine years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. But you're walking to the cleanup and what are you thinking? I mean, you're just going there to help or like, what's the transition? 'cause you went through a big transition. Yeah. Well, I mean, yes, I went from being completely judgy and really angry, as you can tell, garbage all over the place.

Like literally, I mean, not that I would even park down there, so it wasn't affecting me in that way, shape or form, but I guess it just pissed me off. And I did, I recall now driving by and I would look and like, there they all sitting on their, you know, chairs in the middle of the day, not doing anything right.

Very judgmental, probably looking down on them, making up stories that I don't know, you know, thinking they're just like, Oh, ha, ha, ha, here we are living for free, you know. And then I do recall other people from the community who lived in Wallingford there with the truck and everything. So I'm like, okay.

So, um, yeah, there were about 20, 20 I was there. That many people. Yeah. I've got the, I should show you the, you should show me the photograph. . Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember an older, a couple older people and everything and was very cool. Um, I guess just also seeing, you know, in your interaction, you obviously knew everybody and the fact that they wanted to help like that they didn't want to just.

They weren't just expecting us to be there and, you know, clean up, do the work for them. And I guess then I felt really good. I felt really good about helping. And then I guess some people might say, well, then that's about you, Tracy. And you're feeling that's selfish because you're feeling good about helping people.

And so I feel, how do I say things that, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to, I interpreted that when I heard you say that as like, we're all judgy. Like that's not, yeah, you don't own that. Like every person's judgy it's And, but I, I do think also one of the things that's true about judgment is it doesn't feel good.

Even when you're judging someone, you kind of, like, you kind of know, it's kind of icky, right? Like, you know, like, yeah, I'm, I got all these feelings about you. Yeah. But. Even when you're blasting them out, there's another side of you that goes, yeah, this isn't right. I shouldn't be this way. So I, oh yeah, there's a waking up like still even I'm, it's, it's, it's kind of like this Buddhist thing where like, okay, I see myself getting in this negative spin and the dirt and the squalor and the homeless and the tents and the negatively affecting business, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm still go there. And then I stop and say like, why, why is this? So why am I doing that to me? Why is it, you know, and if you're even able, if I'm even able to have a little bit of an interaction, it's like, okay, not to stray, but I, but I do think that's one of the problems is that we all think, well, I'm not going to get involved because what can I do?

Right. Like I, and I, and I think the most important building block, it's like an architect wanting a good foundation, right? The most important building block is relationship, like is stopping and Getting those little interactions because it's all about humanizing. And when you're close. Then the nuances of those moments actually informs how to move forward.

Without it, how do you move forward with homelessness, right? Unless you have a little bit of insight into what might be appropriate. As you get closer, you understand more and you can be less judgy, but then you start caring more and then you're also ripped about, I can't do enough, or I can't, what should I do?

It's a, it's a journey. I do remember something else that was beautiful in that moment and is once we cleaned everything up, filled this whole big dump truck of a truck, um, then we all pulled into a circle and, um, and everybody talked and you were like, just right in there and you were blowing my mind.

You really were. I was like, well, I enjoy that. I enjoy interaction with people and that is. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, hopefully a population that I hope I'm never a part of. So having insight into it, you know, is a big thing. Getting insight and actually talking for a long period of time with people who are homeless.

I mean, I'd never done that before. There's another thing that goes on. With people in homes in our everyday life, you can pretty much get through every day with scripted conversation. Right? Like, I mean, if you go to work and you're at, you're in the elevator or at the copy machine, I mean, it's, Hey, how you doing Tracy?

How was your weekend? Or, you know, it's all almost an autopilot. And when you converse with people outside living completely different lives, it's off script, you know, and you might be asked things that are difficult to answer or be confronted with things that are difficult. And now you really have to, um, I think be a little more.

What's the word? I guess vulnerable about those situations, right? Because you're, um, you've got to be present, I think, in those moments. Well, I remember the one guy who I think was a veteran, relatively young. Yeah, Danny. And I think his RV wasn't working and he needed a part or something. So I think I tried to get him some battery or something.

And then I remember a young, uh, And a baby. She was a blonde gal. And she wanted to take her, I don't even know how we had these conversations, but she wanted to get her GED. So then I posted that on my Facebook page and somebody I think mailed maybe to, somehow she, they, they mailed GED study books. Um, to facing homelessness.

Yeah. I think so. So, I mean, it is exactly what you say, is that. Hearing people's stories and what they've experienced and then you can't help but well if you're at all an empathetic person You can't help it be Empathetic and then also put your yourself like you said in their place and say well, you know But by the grace of whatever you believe in, you know, that could happen if I didn't Yeah.

Have the parents that I did. If I didn't have an education that I do, I mean, who knows if I had been abused, skin color, you know, socioeconomic status, that kind of thing, you know, um, mental health. So then it becomes this thing that we're then I want to try to fix right and help Yeah, which is good. And maybe I don't know maybe not good sometimes Yeah, that's also a tough one because we're a fix it culture, right?

we want to always get in there and fix it and sometimes just being just being with a person and hearing and listening and loving is What they need but yeah, and also we don't We don't always know how we should fix it, so we end up fixing it how we think, and it's not necessarily how they need or want, and so it's complicated again, which I think is okay.

I think part of it is being messy is okay. You know, hanging in there, um, being uncomfortable and being okay with that, I think is also what we're not good at. Well, and, and you, I think you asked earlier, I mean, maybe you're going to ask the question again, but I mean, for sure. changed my opinion. It doesn't mean that I don't go back into You know, times of situations being judgy and being angry and being mad about it and then, you know Catching myself because I do remember those stories.

I don't know what happened to any of those people I don't know if you do and that's why I like to do facing homelessness because I, it was a way you provided a way for people to be able to connect, you know, because there's a lot of people, myself included, who do want to help, but I'm not going to necessarily approach a homeless camp by myself.

What would you say to people that Had the same kind of immediate reaction that you did when you saw the Facebook post, which was to basically say, Hey, this is bullshit. These people are throwing garbage everywhere and blah, blah, blah. What would you say based on your experience? Like, what did you learn from that?

Well, I think it is okay to be upset about garbage and, and that's from a very me centered point of view. Right. And then, um, So, it's interesting whenever anything makes us mad or upset. to feel that. And then also, you know, to be awake, I guess. I remember talking to a therapist at one point and she's like, you know, when you stop yourself and you're like, Oh, okay.

So to be like, okay, what, why am I getting so angry? Why am I so upset? Yeah. And you know, and to think about it and, but I think though, it also helps to have a way to help. And I don't know what you're doing that affords people. The opportunities to be able to help and to be able to interact with the homeless community because if you just sit around and complain and, you know, bitch all the time, I mean, you're not doing anything to help.

Right? So you can have those feelings of being upset because there's unhoused people, you know, living on your street and there's garbage and there's whatever that's from a me point of view. But then what can you do to try to help to? Yeah, I think it's a really good point you're making about providing yeah.

Uh, avenues to help, not only because it does provide help for those in need, but also my experience is the, the more that you get to interface, the, your fear quotient comes down. Like you really, you start to separate the reality between fear and danger because they're two different things, right? Danger we all have to actually be careful of.

Fear is something. A lot of times that we just, we concoct based on our own worries, our own phobias, our own past experiences that may or may not be relative to this situation, but it becomes this big thing. And I think when you, when you do things like you did that day that you came and helped clean up the garbage, it probably brought down, you got to know the people, it brought down that fear more clearly defined what you can and should be afraid of and what you don't be.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, and that's why I do think it's so useful for both those who are unhoused and those who aren't, and those who are upset about it, maybe not from an empathetic, humane point of view. They're more looking at it like, you know, it's my neighborhood, it's, it's, it's making me upset to give us the, us and them an opportunity.

To, yeah, to hear, because you're all about stories. And once you do start hearing people's stories, you're like, Oh gosh, you know, and think about that. And it, it does stay with you. Doesn't mean that you're going to be perfect and you're not going to ever be judgy again. Although some beautiful humans might be like that and forever changed and, and quote unquote perfect with regards to this issue.

But um, yeah, I would encourage you to do something and to give, give the general public opportunities. To interact and Yeah. Hear and, and not just, you know, like at a fundraiser or see their stories, but yeah. I love that you're, you are pointing out that you're giving permission to everybody. That it's okay to still be pissed off or upset or judging, right?

Yeah. Like that's, it's human. That's kind of human. Yeah. Yeah. Here, I want to read this to you. Was that on your page? This was on your page. It was on my page. July 2015. This was afterwards. This is actually quite beautiful. Oh, okay. You wrote, I'm the first to admit that I am sometimes. Oftentimes, question mark, judgmental about a situation, person, et cetera, that I don't understand or agree with.

I try to accept that I'm judgmental while also being open, parentheses, in some cases, to my mind being changed. I did that today. I met with the founder of Facing Homelessness after posting my opinions on a picture of an RV city of homeless people living down below me along Lake Union that a friend shared on my page.

I said I was tired of the garbage all over the place and there. Squatting on public land slash parking spaces. And there's several businesses along there who need those parking spaces too. I was met with both understanding compassion for my opinions and experiences, as well as vicious judgment and name calling parentheses, arrogant, no clue, white privileged women, et cetera, parentheses.

I wasn't planning to join him and his volunteers after our brief coffee chat to help clean up the RVs camps garbage. But since I was, Bitching about the garbage, I thought I'd volunteer to clean up. I stayed for two hours. It ended with hearing stories of the family, because that's what they consider themselves.

Living in the four RVs we cleaned up around. All who spoke up and shared are in the situations they are because they were abused as children, physically, sexually, emotionally. A few cried as they shared. One, a 40 year old man, veteran. I admit, I didn't want it in front of my yard, homeless camps. Garbage all over the area seems to have increased.

It can be scary. Parentheses, pulling in my parking lot at midnight in the dark and people rummaging through garbage. I don't know who they are or their intent, but now that I know them and their stories, I'm open. I want to help. Short term, I know I and you, my community, can help them, but I believe there may, there has to be a long term plan for them too.

How do they get off and stay off the streets? That I don't have the answer to. Facing homelessness is first going to address the garbage issue. Getting them bins, seeing if we can get a scheduled pickup. One of the women, Jennifer, has a one and a half year old daughter. I overheard her saying she wants to go to school.

I approached her and asked more. She doesn't have her GED, and so that's the first step. She wants to work in social services. She has to go to school and get daycare for her daughter while she does that. Can she do that while she's homeless? I don't know. If she's open to receiving my help, I'll see what I and you, my awesome community and friends, can do to help her and her family.

It's interesting, but shedding judgments, Is not particularly easy. There's a bit that wants to hang on. Don't know if it's fear or what. Peace. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes me feel kind of guilty too, because I still do have. You know, that dichotomy, right? Yeah, but you're here talking about it. And I think that's beautiful, and I want to say I love you for that.

I mean that. Don't hug me! Uh, yeah, I've, you, you, you've converted to be a hugger. I know, I know. You've softened. Um, That's it, that's it exactly though. I mean, I just basically, you know, coming from this anger, not in my backyard, you know, judgment, to, you know, You being the conduit to allow me to interact and see and hear something different.

I didn't recall that they had all been abused in one way, shape, or form. That does not surprise me in a little bit. You know, it doesn't surprise me at all. And I just know majority of us, if we knew that information would be more empathetic and And, you know, it's with anything, there's, there's some people who don't vote because they say, my vote doesn't matter.

Same thing. I'm, I, I'm not going to help, you know, give them gifts to this one person, you know, lunch or get them something when I'm at QFC because what is that going to do? You know, it's, I, I just, yeah, it's defeating, uh, I, I just want to go back to the feet. You were starting to say this, the feelings you had before that you unleashed this judgment Mm hmm.

To this letter to your community, because I remember I did cry when you posted this, it was beautiful, you had made some, maybe it was in the comments, you said something to the fact, I remember, you know, I was wrong, I had judged them, right? And it was this beautiful admission a few days later, you know, people in my community did step up to, yeah, I think somebody did buy something for Danny and somebody did send the books for Jennifer and, um, You know, and then that made me feel good because then it made me feel like I was working to help to get them out because then I was like, well, I want them to not be homeless anymore.

Yeah. You know, I think what I want to, what I would want people to hear out of this discussion with you is that, you know, is that every one of us can go through this transition, right? Like, and it doesn't have to be perfect, right? Like you are sitting here right now sharing openly about that. You still have these feelings of judgment, but that you also were touched by the stories and the people that you met and that it motivated you to want to do something and that that's going to be a up and down path.

Yeah. And I still do. I just, you know, I, I, I guess It goes back to that, when I see one homeless person that might be, you know, maybe I'm going through the taco time drive in and, you know, I'm like, well, I could get that person something. You know, it becomes a little more overwhelming when it's a community.

Any other thoughts about homelessness or any advice for people that are wondering about reaching out like you did? Having this conversation with you is just awakened again, you know, to stay awake and by that, I mean, we're, we're all going to have. You know, times of anger and judgment and not understanding and then, you know, try to nip it in the bud as quickly as you can and say, okay, what's on the, you know, what's on the other side of that?

Because we're, nobody's perfect all the time in particular regards to this issue because it's entangled up so much from mental health to addiction to, you know, abuse and, you know, income inequality and all that kind of stuff. Um, And it's just, I guess, for us who are lucky enough to be housed and to be able to be surviving, you know, economically, to be a little more, you know, empathetic and to try to stop your anger and judgment quicker, you know, just find, you know, people and organizations that are actually doing something.

And I like that. I like the more grass roots, like you actually get to speak to the homeless people. I mean, yes, it's good to donate money to XYZ organization at some gala or something, right? But I think it's much more enriching and helps to an educational and insightful to go and like work with the people and talk with the people who are experiencing homelessness.

The issue of homelessness is for sure complex and overwhelming, emotional really for everyone. Conversations can become heated in a heartbeat, especially when on social media or other platforms such as Nextdoor. However, if we're to solve this issue, we need more than just the politicians and the service providers to be involved.

We need community solutions, meaning we all need to be involved. And if we are all to be part of the solution, it's clear we can't do it being closed minded and yelling at each other. Thank you, Tracy, for having shared your very real frustration over the issue of homelessness, and at the very same time, Having kept an open mind to come closer to hear another side of the story.

You Know Me Now is 100 percent supported by folks just like you. If you find worth in listening, please consider visiting our Patreon page, found on our website, to donate. We also have a very active Facebook page titled, You Know Me Now, where you can join in on the conversation. I hope to chat with you there.

You Know Me Now is produced, written, and edited by Tomas Bernatsky and me, Rex Holbein. We would like to give a heartfelt thank you to Tracy for sharing so openly with us, and to all of you for listening.